Your Audience, Your Edge: Unpacking Zero-Click Marketing | Amanda Natividad
Welcome back to The Search Session, the podcast where strategy meets creativity in the world of digital marketing. I’m your host, Gianluca Fiorelli, and today’s episode is one I’ve been especially looking forward to.
Joining me is Amanda Natividad—VP of Marketing at SparkToro, prolific voice on social media, and the brilliant mind behind the now widely adopted concept of zero-click content.
In this episode, we talk about the evolution of user behavior, the rise of platform-native content, how memorability drives impact, and why understanding your audience goes far beyond buyer personas.
So grab your headphones—or a strong coffee—and get ready for a thoughtful, fun, and genuinely insightful conversation with Amanda Natividad.
Let’s get into it.
Video Chapters
Transcript
Gianluca Fiorelli: Hi everybody, and welcome back to The Search Session, the video podcast series where we dig deep to uncover new insights about digital marketing, approaching it from a more strategic and creative perspective, not just a tactical one.
Meet Our Guest: Amanda Natividad
Gianluca Fiorelli: Today, I’m thrilled to welcome Amanda Natividad as our guest. (And yes, it’s a name I can finally pronounce without worrying I’ll mess it up!) Amanda is the Vice President of Marketing at SparkToro—yes, the audience analysis tool co-founded by Rand Fishkin and Casey Henry.
Amanda is well-known across social media. She’s very active on LinkedIn, Threads, BlueSky, and I think still on X, if I’m not mistaken. She’s also widely recognized for coining the now-famous phrase “zero-click content.”
Hi Amanda, how are you doing?
Amanda Natividad: I am good. Thank you for having me, Gianluca.
Gianluca Fiorelli: So, how are things going?
Amanda Natividad: Good! You know what—I have to say, if I could give an award for the best pronunciation of my last name, I’d give you ten of them.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Well, come on—it’s easy! I’ve lived in Spain for 20 years, so names like yours feel a bit more familiar now.
You know, just to start on a lighter note, there’s always that test—how baristas at Starbucks spell your name. It’s a classic. For instance, with my name, Gianluca, I’ve just given up and say “Luca.” Much easier.
They still mess it up, though! “Gianluca” doesn’t really exist as a name in Spanish, so I get all kinds of variations. I remember Aleyda Solis once saying her name gets completely reinvented at Starbucks—everywhere in the world except Spain.
So you’re lucky—your first name is Amanda, nice and simple. But I am curious… how do they handle “Natividad”?
Amanda Natividad: Oh, they can't. Nobody can. They look at it and go, “Nevada,” and I’m like… really?
Gianluca Fiorelli: I mean, come on—there’s a big difference between Natividad and Nevada.
Amanda Natividad: A very big difference! And honestly, moments like that really make me question the American education system… and not just for this reason, though there are plenty of others.
Zero-Click Content and Marketing in 2025
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, yeah. So, as I was telling you before we started recording, The Search Session aims to be a space where we can talk about digital marketing in this era of transition.
We're living in a kind of in-between moment—between the “old way” of doing marketing, before the explosion of AI, and a future that’s not quite here yet but already starting to take shape. A future where things might look completely different.
But I don’t want to focus only on the changes brought by AI. There’s a broader shift happening—something that’s especially visible through SparkToro, through Rand’s work, and, of course, through yours as well. It's this growing awareness of how user behavior is changing, often shaped—or even forced—by the platforms themselves. Social media platforms, search engines… they all seem more focused than ever on keeping users inside their own ecosystems.
And that shift, I think, is also a reflection of something deeper: a real change in how people approach finding information or simply consuming content online.
Now, we’re also dealing with AI-generated answers that try to give us everything without us clicking through to the original source. So given all of that—and the fact that you’re the one who coined the concept of “zero-click content,” and by extension, “zero-click marketing”—I’d love to dive into this.
What changes in user behavior have you observed? And is zero-click content the right way forward—not just because platforms demand it but because people really have changed the way they consume content?
Amanda Natividad: So, I think what’s really interesting about zero-click content—or zero-click marketing—is that it's essentially a way of doing marketing. It’s a content strategy that many of the best marketers and fastest-growing brands have kind of naturally evolved into over time.
When I say that I “originated” zero-click content, what I really mean is that I noticed a trend, gave it a name, and defined it clearly. That gave other marketers—especially those who hadn’t already adopted it—a framework they could use to take their strategy to the next level.
This actually started maybe three years ago, I think around 2022?
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes.
Amanda Natividad: Yeah. So I was chatting with my colleague Rand Fishkin, and I said something like, “You know how people are doing zero-click content?” And he stopped me and asked, “Wait—what’s that?”
So I explained: zero-click content is when you create native, platform-specific content that provides standalone value. There’s no need for someone to click away to get the full message—but of course, it's even better if they do.
Rand immediately said, “You should write a blog post about that.” And I actually laughed and said, “Really? That’s not a blog post. It’s just… a thing people already know.” But he insisted: “No. Please write it. This needs to be a blog post.”
So I did—and to my surprise, it really took off in a way I hadn’t anticipated.
Not long after that post—The Counterintuitive Way to Succeed in Marketing—was published, I started seeing the phrase “zero-click content” appear in job descriptions. Social media and content roles were literally listing “must be able to create zero-click content” as a requirement.
So I think it was something a lot of people instinctively understood they needed to do—but until then, there was no shared language or clear framework for it. Now we have that.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, exactly. I think that’s the classic case of something people take for granted—or at least assume others are doing—but no one had actually put it clearly down on paper.
Maybe some were already doing it. Maybe others were doing something similar without realizing it. But once you gave it a name and defined it, it became something people could point to and say, “Yes, that’s what I’m doing,” or, “That’s what I need to be doing.”
It reminds me of something from a few years back—sort of my own “proto” zero-click content experience. I remember posting a tweet that said something like: “If you want to understand search intent, look at the search results pages. Google is showing you everything right there.”
It seemed so basic to me—something I thought everyone in SEO already understood. But the tweet ended with, “You must look, not just watch,” meaning there’s a big difference between passively scrolling and actually paying attention.
And suddenly, that tweet went viral within the SEO community. People started sharing it, quoting it, building on it. It was surprising. I thought, “Wait, wasn’t everyone already doing this?” But clearly, it needed to be said out loud.
And I think that’s similar to what happened with you. Once you defined zero-click content and gave it a name, it became real. It might not have been new, exactly—but naming it gave it shape and meaning. That made all the difference.
Brand Marketing’s Comeback
Gianluca Fiorelli: And I also think it’s a fantastic definition of marketing and content today—especially now, as we see this renewed focus on brand and the power of brand marketing. In a way, zero-click marketing is a natural outcome of really strong brand work. Wouldn’t you agree?
Amanda Natividad: Yeah, I think so. And I really appreciate what you’re saying about brand marketing.
It does feel like we’ve come full circle in this digital era. The classic marketing tactics—the ones people used long before the rise of digital—might actually be what we need to lean into now in order to succeed.
A lot of those brand-focused activities are making a comeback. And even the way we’ve traditionally measured success in brand marketing is starting to feel more relevant again. We're not just obsessing over click-through rates or trying to track every bit of attribution precisely—because honestly, we can’t do that anymore. Not in the same way.
So now we have to shift our focus to different kinds of metrics. Things like: Are we increasing impressions? Are we seeing incremental lift in specific regions where we’ve focused more of our marketing efforts?
It’s a different mindset. And I think there’s actually a lot we can learn from our out-of-home advertising counterparts—people who’ve always had to think in terms of reach, awareness, and broader impact.
Gianluca Fiorelli: I completely agree. And actually, this is something we’re seeing as a growing trend in SEO as well.
The smartest SEOs are moving away from a strictly keyword-centric strategy. It’s becoming more about visibility—being present where it matters, rather than just ranking for specific terms.
That shift is partly a response to how Google itself behaves now, especially with the rise of zero-click results. In many cases, it’s more valuable to be highly visible across as many of the potential touchpoints as possible—within Google’s own ecosystem, and now, increasingly, across all the platforms people might use during a search journey.
So visibility has become the key metric.
Novelty and Memorability in Content Creation
Gianluca Fiorelli: But then the question becomes: How do we make that visibility memorable?
Amanda Natividad: Yeah.
Gianluca Fiorelli: And that’s exactly why I really like the concept of zero-click marketing. At its core, it’s about intentionally creating content that isn’t meant to drive a click—at least not directly.
Take LinkedIn, for example. We’ve all seen the common tactic where people put the actual link in the comments, rather than in the post itself. Why? Because posts with links tend to get less reach. But if you keep the content native to the platform, you gain more visibility—and then drop the link in the comments to try and get the best of both worlds.
Amanda Natividad: Mm-hmm.
Gianluca Fiorelli: So it's a nice workaround. You stay visible with native content, but you still leave a path for people to click if they’re interested.
Ultimately, though, it’s more about being memorable—and starting to track things like visibility and branded traffic more closely. Those become the real signals of impact.
Amanda Natividad: Mm-hmm.
Gianluca Fiorelli: It all comes back to how people are finding and coming to the brand. And that reminds me of a fairly recent study Rand did, where he found that around 40% of Google searches are branded.
So maybe that’s the way forward. But it raises the question—how do we make content memorable?
What does memorable even mean in this kind of strategy? How do you define it in terms of message and content in a zero-click or visibility-first world?
Amanda Natividad: Yeah, so the way I think about it is... well, there's a lot to unpack here.
One thing that stands out to me is how we, as marketers, used to see visibility as the end goal—like, “Let’s do all the right things, and hopefully we’ll get seen.” But now, in an age where there are more internet users than ever and more content being published every single day, we need to shift our thinking.
Visibility isn’t just an outcome anymore—it’s something we need to leverage as part of our actual strategy.
And that’s where memorability comes in. If you're going to earn attention, the content itself needs to stick.
So how do we make content memorable?
For me, the biggest driver of memorability is novelty. Is the content novel in some way? And I actually think novelty is more objective than people often assume.
There are a few ways to create novelty in your content:
Share something completely original. That could be a new insight, fresh research, or just a unique idea that hasn’t been shared before. Of course, that’s hard—especially today—but you can pressure-test your idea by doing a quick search. Has anyone else said this? If not, you might be onto something.
Lean into counterintuitive ideas. People love content that challenges conventional wisdom. One example from marketing: Many people think you should never delete contacts from your email list. But actually, cleaning out people who haven’t engaged in a long time improves performance. It helps you focus on the audience that truly wants to hear from you. That kind of myth-busting gets attention.
Position your message in a fresh way. Sometimes it's not about a new idea, but a new framing. Maybe you say something in a way that taps into an emotion people feel—but haven’t yet seen articulated. That’s the kind of post where someone reads it and goes, “Yes! That’s exactly what I’ve been thinking—but I didn’t know how to say it.”
Those are just a few ways you can intentionally engineer novelty and, in turn, memorability into your content.
Copycat Content and the Problem with Blogs
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, yeah—and that reminds me of a few things I’ve seen over the years, especially as an SEO and consultant. I’ve looked at so many websites and so many search results… and one classic example is the company blog.
You know, the question of “Why have a blog if you can’t maintain it?” Or worse—maybe you can maintain it, but you’re just mass-producing content that all sounds the same.
I do this test sometimes—especially on mobile. I switch to “reader mode,” so it strips away the design and just shows the plain text. Then I jump from one blog post to another across different websites. And you know what? Without the visual template, you can’t tell which site you're reading. The content is so generic, it could belong to anyone.
That’s when I think: maybe we need to mis-educate companies—unlearn a lot of what they’ve been doing so far. Not everything, of course. Some lessons have been valuable. But a lot of bad habits have been picked up too, especially this copycat behavior. Companies start mimicking others just because they rank well or seem to be performing. “They’re doing it, so we should do the same.”
Take content audits, for example. The standard “gap analysis” often asks, “What are our competitors doing that we’re not?” But I think the more important question is the opposite: “What are we doing—or could do—that our competitors are not?”
And that brings us back to what you were saying earlier—about originality and novelty. Maybe instead of writing yet another blog post, we do a video. Or instead of a video, we create a small tool—like, say, an interactive trip planner that suggests custom tours of Italy with embedded content. Something useful, something unique. Something that people remember.
But to do that, we need to really know our audience.
And honestly, I don’t know if you’ve seen this too, but I’ve worked with so many companies that don’t actually know their audience that well. They don’t fully understand what problems they’re solving—or who they’re solving them for.
Amanda Natividad: Yeah, and this is a great segue—because we’re both talking about the same core idea from different angles.
I’m talking about creating novelty, and you’re talking about gap analysis—on both sides: asking what competitors are doing that you're not, and what you might be doing that they aren’t. These are all part of the same conversation. They're about finding the gaps, the whitespace, the opportunities to do something different and valuable.
And I get asked about this all the time—people say, “How do you do that?”
“How do you come up with something that hasn’t already been said?”
“How do you say something that really taps into what people are already thinking or feeling?”
And that’s where audience research comes in. You have to understand what your audience is doing, what they’re thinking, what their pain points are, and what problems they’re trying to solve. That’s the key to better marketing.
Sure, you can still use keyword research—and you should. It’s useful to know what people are searching for. And yeah, I know, Gianluca, you’ve probably heard this a million times too: “SEO is dead.” Or, “Don’t worry about keyword volume anymore.”
But why wouldn’t you care about that? People should care about what their audience is searching for.
Keyword research tells you what people are looking for. But audience research tells you who is doing the searching—and why. What problems are they trying to solve? What else are they struggling with that might not show up in search data?
So ideally, you want both. You want to understand what topics your audience cares about—and also what they already know, what gaps exist, and how you can contribute something new. Something that adds information gain to the conversation.
And this approach goes beyond just content. When you understand your audience deeply, it helps across the board: you can do better creator marketing, more effective performance marketing, and build more precise targeting strategies—because now you have better definitions, better audience segments, and better context.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Completely agree—and actually, this reminds me of something that happens pretty often in my work.
Before starting with a new client, I always try to do at least a light audience analysis—not something super in-depth, but enough to understand who the client is trying to target. That way, I can shape a more informed pitch and strategy from the beginning.
And you know what? More than once—actually, quite a few times—it’s led me to realize: this client doesn’t even need SEO right now.
Because the people searching for the kind of service they offer? They’re not on Google—not yet, at least. They’re looking for information in completely different places. They're in forums, or on Reddit, or chatting in Discord groups. The search volume might be low not because there's no interest, but because the market isn’t mature yet.
This kind of thing happens a lot with early-stage startups. They’re solving problems, yes—but the audience doesn’t know they should be searching for a solution yet. So in those cases, it’s more important to show up in community spaces than to worry about ranking in search.
And speaking of understanding audiences—I want to try something new here on StreamYard!
Audience Research vs. Market Research: A Deep Dive
Gianluca Fiorelli: Okay, it’s not exactly an experiment [laughs], but it brings me to something you’ve written that I really appreciated. You published a great guide on how to do audience research. And what I especially liked is how, right at the beginning, you make a clear distinction between audience research and... wait, what’s the other one again? I know it in Italian and Spanish...
Amanda Natividad: Market research.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes—market research! And I loved that comparison you made—kind of like microeconomics versus macroeconomics. It’s such a helpful way to explain it.
Because honestly, this is one of the biggest misunderstandings I see when working with clients. You ask for audience research, and they hand you a market report. Which is great—it gives me a lot of context—but then I still have to go back and do the audience work myself, since that part’s missing.
So could you, really quickly, explain for the people watching: what are the biggest differences between audience research and market research?
Amanda Natividad: So, audience research versus market research—yes, let’s break it down.
The biggest difference is that audience research is people-centric, while market research is market- or landscape-centric. That’s why the comparison to microeconomics versus macroeconomics is such a helpful one.
With audience research, you’re zooming in to understand your target audience on a micro level. You’re learning about their needs, their preferences, where they spend time online, and even the specific language they use to describe their problems. It’s personal. It’s behavioral. It’s qualitative and contextual.
Market research, on the other hand, zooms out to the macro level. It helps you understand the broader landscape—overall industry trends, what your competitors are doing, and key metrics like total addressable market (TAM) or sales addressable market (SAM). It’s about assessing the market opportunity, not the people within it.
One last thing I’d add is that market research usually comes before audience research. Market research helps you figure out whether you should even build a product or start a company in the first place. Audience research comes later—it helps you figure out how to reach and resonate with the people you're building for.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes. And don’t you think that maybe, when people—or even businesses—confuse audience research with market research, it can lead to another kind of problem?
I sometimes think of market research as another way to call visibility research—where a business might have visibility online, but it’s totally useless because it doesn’t resonate with the audience. And maybe that confusion is part of what leads to those kinds of situations, no?
Amanda Natividad: I think so.
I mean, I think the big thing is—yeah, if you’re having a hard time figuring out how to create resonant content, a lot of the time it’s because there just hasn’t been enough audience research. That’s usually what’s missing.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes. And, you know, when you explain it, there are so many ways to do audience research.
Some of them are very classic—like going into the customer service department, or what in the U.S. is sometimes called the “happiness department” [laughs]. You have these very creative names for business areas over there.
But the important thing is to pay attention to what customers are actually saying—through emails, phone calls, support tickets, all of that. Then, of course, there are surveys, which are another classic method.
And I found it really funny when you wrote, “Beware of surveys,” because it’s so true—sometimes people say things in surveys that they don’t actually do. It reminded me of those pre-election political surveys, where people say they’re going to vote for one candidate… and then they vote for the other, but feel ashamed to admit it.
So that point really resonated with me—not everything people say reflects what they’ll actually do.
Moving Past Buyer Personas: The Audience-Centric Approach
Gianluca Fiorelli: But beyond that, there are so many other ways to do audience research. And I found it especially interesting when you talked about how it became so common for businesses to create these “buyer personas”—but often in a very rigid, almost caricatured way. The classic, stereotypical buyer persona.
And then you went and made that brilliant, viral post where you created a fake buyer persona… based on a fake version of yourself. It was hilarious.
But still, I get the idea: even though the buyer persona model can feel oversimplified or artificial, we do need some kind of profile or identity—something to give structure and guidance to the people doing the marketing.
So how do you think we should frame that? What’s the right way to define a persona that’s actually useful?
Amanda Natividad: Yeah, I think the main quibble I have with buyer personas—and probably the most common one—is that they’re reductive.
A typical buyer persona tends to focus too much on surface-level demographics and job titles. But we’re all more than that, right? We’re more than our age or our ethnicity. We’re more than just our role at work.
That’s one issue, and I definitely share it. But another, maybe even bigger issue with buyer personas is that they only focus on the buyer. And that’s not how most people actually make purchasing decisions.
Very few of us make decisions entirely on our own, in a vacuum. We’re influenced by all kinds of people and signals. Maybe it’s journalists in the space. Maybe it’s analysts who cover the industry. Sometimes it’s even investors who post publicly about a product or trend. And of course—probably the biggest influence of all—is our friends and family.
So if you’re only focusing on the buyer—the person who swipes the credit card—you’re missing that whole sphere of influence around them.
That’s why I think it’s much more helpful to think holistically, and by extension, to think more holistically about your marketing strategy. Instead of buyer personas, I like to use audience personas.
When you frame it as an audience persona, the buyer becomes one part of a broader audience. And now you’re also considering all the people who influence that buyer:
Friends and family
Creators and influencers—people with podcasts, YouTube channels, newsletters
Reporters
Investors
Even your competitors—what are they saying that you aren’t? What aren’t they saying that you could be?
That takes us back to the gap analysis concept we talked about earlier.
And then there’s also what I think of as your coopetition—people or brands who share your audience but aren’t in direct competition with you. For example, if you’re a haircare brand, your co-marketers might be skincare or beauty brands. You’re not competing, but you're talking to the same people.
So that’s why I love the audience persona approach. It forces you to think bigger—not just about who your buyers are, but about everyone who surrounds and influences them.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, yeah. And the concept of audience personas—it’s not new either. It’s been around for quite a while. But it's still something that not everyone fully embraces.
I actually have a really nice example of what you were saying earlier—about how a buyer persona usually just focuses on the person doing the final transaction, the one swiping the card. But they can be influenced by so many others—like their family.
I remember reading a fascinating study a few years ago that said: pay attention to the kids. In families with children, the purchasing decisions of the parents—especially the father—are often influenced by what the kids want or repeatedly ask for.
So take a silly example: Why do families with small kids tend to go to Disneyland? It’s not necessarily because the dad is a huge fan of Disney characters. It’s because for six months straight, the kids have been saying “I want to go to Disneyland!” every single day.
This study even outlined ways you could try to influence kids in order to influence their parents. And I thought—what a perfect example of what you were saying: there’s this whole circle of influence around the buyer that marketers often overlook.
Leveraging Coopetition and Influencers for Brand Growth
Gianluca Fiorelli: And speaking of indirect influence—another thing I’ve seen a lot, especially with businesses that don’t have big budgets, is this idea of working with non-competitor influencers.
For instance, maybe a business would love to have an amazing YouTube channel—but they don’t have the time or resources to make that happen. So instead, why not collaborate with creators who already have an audience that overlaps with theirs?
Actually, I have one here next to me— a painted miniature [laughs], and in that world, the best YouTube channels are not made by the companies that sell the paints or brushes. They’re made by the painters themselves. These creators have built loyal communities. And now you see brands working with them, sponsoring their videos, or doing co-marketing partnerships.
That’s a great example of the creator economy in action—and how it can be a huge help for businesses, especially smaller ones. But to do that well, you really need to understand who actually influences your audience—not just go by surface-level numbers.
So I’m curious: what kind of criteria do you use to figure that out? Whether you're using a specific tool—like SparkToro, for example—or something else, how do you identify these coopetition opportunities?
Amanda Natividad: Oh, that’s interesting—yeah, that’s a good question.
So, I threw out a couple of words earlier: coopetition and comarketing. Let me unpack those a bit.
Coopetition is about identifying people or brands you could potentially collaborate with—even if, on the surface, they might look like your competition. I say “competition” in air quotes here because what it really means is that you share the same audience. You’re both competing for attention from the same group of people, but your offerings aren’t actually in conflict.
A good example would be haircare and skincare brands. Same audience, different products. Different value props. So there’s a lot of room to work together.
That’s where co-marketing comes in—how can you market together? How can you create shared value for the same audience in a way that helps both sides?
Now, when it comes to identifying good co-marketing opportunities, this is where a tool like SparkToro can be really helpful.
For instance, you can see if people who visit your website are also visiting another site. That’s already a good clue that there might be some audience overlap. You could also use a tool like SimilarWeb to analyze traffic patterns and behavior in a similar way.
Another thing you can look at is shared social accounts. What accounts does your audience follow? Are there any overlaps with another brand’s audience? If so, that could point to a potential co-marketing partner.
And now, with SparkToro’s newer features, you can even see keyword search volume—not just in a broad sense, but based on what your audience is actually searching for. So let’s say you’re a haircare brand. You could run a SparkToro search and find out what other topics your audience is Googling. Maybe one of those topics connects with a completely different brand or industry—but the audience pain point is the same.
Then you could approach that potential partner and say, “Hey, I ran this analysis and found that we both serve the same audience. And they’re all struggling with this issue—say, reducing churn through better email marketing.”
If both of you bring a unique perspective or solution to that shared problem, then that’s where the magic happens. That’s what makes a great co-marketing partner: shared audience, shared pain point, and complementary strengths. You can basically combine forces to deliver a much stronger message—and much more value.
Gianluca Fiorelli: And I’d also add another important element to what you said: shared values.
Maybe the brand you’re collaborating with doesn’t share 100% of your values—but there should at least be a strong alignment. If not, things can fall apart. That’s often the mistake I see: brands saying one thing about who they are and what they stand for, but then partnering with people or companies that don’t reflect that identity. It creates a disconnect—an inconsistency that your audience will pick up on.
I also liked what you said earlier about using search data to understand your audience better. That’s something I really believe in—and it's not complicated. In fact, one of the things I’ve talked about for years is the idea that Google, because of the massive amount of data it has, is constantly trying to anticipate what users will search for next. It’s not just about showing you results—it’s about predicting your next move, based on patterns.
So I love using features like:
People Also Ask
Related Searches
Topic filters
Auto-suggest (Google Suggest)
These are great clues. They show you how people are actually searching, what follow-up questions they have, and what kind of information they need to solve their problem. It’s real-time insight into the user journey.
When it comes to creators, I also pay close attention to who Google is recommending. For example, if I start searching something on YouTube and Google starts suggesting specific creators, I stop and ask: Who are these people? Why are they being surfaced? And if I see that Google is consistently showing their videos instead of mine—or instead of showing content from my brand—then my next step is to figure out how to get into their videos.
Because I’m an SEO, I naturally want visibility in the search results. But if I’m not creating video content—and Google is prioritizing video—then I want to collaborate with the creators who are being shown.
And that’s something I see a lot in niche communities. For example, for miniature painting, and in that world, the best YouTube channels aren’t from the companies that sell the paint—they’re from the painters. These creators have trust and retention. Their audiences are loyal. And companies are smart to collaborate with them.
Another tool I love using is Google Trends. It’s helpful in a few different ways. First, it helps me understand whether certain topics have seasonality—if they spike at certain times of the year, or cycle back regularly. That’s useful for planning campaigns.
But I also like to use Trends in a more creative way. This goes back to my days working in television, where we’d try to create content that stood out by combining two seemingly unrelated topics.
Creativity vs Risk: Where’s the Line?
Gianluca Fiorelli: Let’s say—just for fun—you discover through audience research that people searching for credit card info also happen to love paleontology. Now you’ve got something weird and surprising… but potentially very memorable. You could create content that connects the two. Will everyone love it? Maybe not. But it might light a spark with your audience—and that’s where the magic happens.
But that brings me to another question—and maybe we can explore this a bit more: when do you think creativity becomes a risk?
Because sometimes brands go too far. I’m thinking of the case with Jaguar, for example. They completely rebranded the iconography of the brand—big creative swing. And sure, it got attention… but maybe not the kind of attention they were hoping for.
So where do you draw the line between bold creativity and losing the plot?
Amanda Natividad: Yeah, yeah. I mean, the way I think about it is—when you're being creative, you’re essentially taking a strong point of view. That’s what creativity often is.
And when you take a strong point of view, there’s always a risk that you’ll alienate certain people.
So the question becomes: who might you alienate, and is it worth it?
Because sometimes it is worth it. Sometimes it’s actually a good thing to repel certain people—especially if they’re not part of your target market. If they’re never going to buy from you or engage meaningfully, then you don’t need them to care.
This applies across the board—whether you’re creating content that goes against the grain or launching a campaign that breaks from the norm. The key is to ask: Who could this upset? Why? And are the trade-offs worth it?
That’s how I tend to think about it.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, yeah. I really like the idea of using audience analysis and research insights not just to understand who is in your audience but also to identify whether there’s a segment of the audience that maybe shouldn’t be there. That’s such an interesting angle.
And when that happens, it becomes something you really need to communicate—especially to the CEO, stakeholders, and other decision-makers. Because then the question becomes: Is it worth keeping this segment?
Or… over the long term, could this group actually hurt us? Could it alienate the part of the audience that matters more to the brand?
And of course, to make that case, we need to translate these insights into numbers—real, economic numbers. Revenue impact. Business value. Because let’s be honest: if we don’t connect it back to money, the CEO isn’t going to make that decision.
Anyway, I could definitely keep talking with you about all of this! And I’m already promising myself we’ll have another conversation in the future.
Quick-Fire Round: Amanda’s Favorites
Gianluca Fiorelli: But before we wrap up, I want to ask you a few questions that are now a classic part of The Search Session. It’s a little personal, but not too personal—it’s based loosely on the Proust Questionnaire. The only condition? Try to answer without thinking too much. Just go with your instinct—give yourself a few seconds, but no overthinking.
It’s a fun way to get to know you not just as a brilliant marketer but also as a person.
So, let’s start with the first one:
What is the smell you like the most?
Amanda Natividad: Coffee.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Ooh. Which kind of coffee? I'm Italian, eh! [laughs]
Amanda Natividad: Oh gosh… I don’t know—maybe a medium roast bean. Just anything freshly ground, really.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Cool, cool, cool. Love it.
Now let’s stick with the senses, but go the other way…
What’s the sound you dislike the most?
Amanda Natividad: Oh, the sound of utensils scraping on a plate—when it squeaks? Ugh.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Ah yes, like this kind of noise—[makes a scraping sound]—almost like nails on a chalkboard?
Amanda Natividad: Yep. Nope. I can’t.
Gianluca Fiorelli: I get it. And I’ve realized something similar over the years—since I’ve been working remotely for so long, I’m just not used to office sounds anymore.
So now, if I’m at an agency as a guest, and I hear someone typing on a mechanical keyboard…
Amanda Natividad: Oh yeah. Loud.
Gianluca Fiorelli: It’s so loud!
Alright, next one—something a bit more introspective: What’s your very first memory?
Amanda Natividad: Oh… I think my very first memory is of my mom’s blue sweatpants.
She had these light blue sweatpants, and I think I remember them because I was really small—standing in front of her—and all I could see at that level were her pants. I probably had my arms raised up, like, “Pick me up.”
So that soft blue color just stuck with me. It’s such a vivid, specific memory.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Beautiful.
Okay, shifting to something more comforting now—when you think of food, what’s the first thing that comes to mind?
Amanda Natividad: A big bowl of spaghetti.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Ohhh… [laughs] Cool.
And what about the last movie or TV series you watched that you really fell in love with?
Amanda Natividad: Right now? White Lotus, Season 3.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Great choice.
Okay, now a book question—but not a marketing or business one!
What’s a non-marketing book that you keep on your shelf or your Kindle—something you revisit from time to time, just to reread a passage or two?
Amanda Natividad: That would be Tiny Beautiful Things by Cheryl Strayed.
It’s written in kind of a vignette style—it’s based on the “Dear Sugar” advice column she used to write. You can open it up to any chapter and get something meaningful from it, even without context.
It’s like a zero-click book! [laughs] You don’t need to read the whole thing in order—it still gives you value.
For a while, it was one of those books I’d gift to people pretty regularly.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Oh, nice. Okay, last question—let’s talk travel.
What’s one place you’d really love to visit?
Amanda Natividad: I would love to visit Japan.
Gianluca Fiorelli: My wife too! We actually have a plan to go someday. Maybe we can organize a trip together.
Amanda Natividad: I’ll see you there! Maybe we can even turn it into an SEO conference.
Gianluca Fiorelli: No, no, no, no, no! [laughs]
Amanda Natividad: [laughing] You’re right. No, no, forget it. We’ll just go and enjoy ourselves!
Gianluca Fiorelli: Exactly. Although I do sometimes use SEO conferences as an excuse to travel—especially to places that would be harder to plan with my wife or family. Like, right now I’m really trying to convince someone to organize an SEO event in New Zealand… and invite me.
Because otherwise, there's no way I’m getting there. My wife says, “Too many hours on a plane! Two days of travel?” [laughs] So yeah… that’s the plan. But Japan is definitely on the list.
Anyway—thank you, Amanda. It was lovely to have you as a guest on The Search Session. I think you’ve shared so much value with everyone watching and listening. No reason to be nervous at all!
Amanda Natividad: Thank you, Gianluca. This was so fun.
Gianluca Fiorelli: You're very welcome.
Amanda Natividad: Let’s do it again soon—maybe in a couple of months?
Gianluca Fiorelli: Absolutely.
Amanda Natividad: Part two!
Podcast Host
Gianluca Fiorelli
With almost 20 years of experience in web marketing, Gianluca Fiorelli is a Strategic and International SEO Consultant who helps businesses improve their visibility and performance on organic search. Gianluca collaborated with clients from various industries and regions, such as Glassdoor, Idealista, Rastreator.com, Outsystems, Chess.com, SIXT Ride, Vegetables by Bayer, Visit California, Gamepix, James Edition and many others.
A very active member of the SEO community, Gianluca daily shares his insights and best practices on SEO, content, Search marketing strategy and the evolution of Search on social media channels such as X, Bluesky and LinkedIn and through the blog on his website: IloveSEO.net.
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