The Old and the New of Content Marketing and PR
Welcome back to The Search Session. I’m your host, Gianluca Fiorelli, and in this episode, we’ll explore how content consumption is evolving, the changing role of PR in SEO, and the impact of AI on brand visibility.
From the decline of traditional SERP clicks to the rise of AI-driven discovery, we’ll tackle the biggest challenges—and opportunities—facing marketers today.
Joining me are two incredible industry leaders who have not only mastered their craft but have also played a pivotal role in redefining how brands amplify their message.
First, we have Lexi Mills, CEO of Shift6 Studios, and alongside her, we welcome Ross Simmonds, CEO of Foundation Marketing and Head of Growth at Distribution.ai.
So, let’s get started! Lexi, Ross—welcome to The Search Session!
Video Chapters
Transcript
Gianluca Fiorelli: Hello, and welcome back to the search session! This is the third episode, and today, we’re diving into content, PR, and marketing—how to amplify your message and the challenges AI presents in this great field of marketing.
Introducing Lexi Mills and Ross Simmonds
Gianluca Fiorelli: Joining me are two incredible experts—honestly, I don’t even have the words to describe how amazing they are. Not only are they top professionals, but they’re also good friends of mine.
Let’s give a warm welcome to Lexi Mills and Ross Simmonds!
If you’re not familiar with Lexi, she’s an extraordinary person and an all-around wonderful human being. She also happens to be the CEO of Shift6 Studios—would it be fair to call it a boutique agency?
Lexi Mills: Yes, we’re a boutique firm, and our focus is largely on reputation—blending PR and SEO. These two areas are increasingly hard to define separately today, so we navigate both.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, totally. And Ross, you’re the CEO of Foundation Marketing and for six months now, also the Head of Growth of a new startup, Distribution.ai, which fits perfectly with what we’re going to talk about today.
Ross Simmonds: Excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
The Shift in SERP Clicks and Content Consumption
Gianluca Fiorelli: So, when it comes to content in relation to SEO, there has always been a somewhat complicated relationship. For years, content has been seen primarily as a tool for achieving visibility rather than accessibility. The focus has been on making a brand visible for the sake of ranking rather than using content to truly amplify its mission, services, products, and overall brand identity.
This has led to a poor, often exploitative use of content—particularly in connection with PR, which has frequently been treated as just another form of link building. Many so-called "classic" link-building campaigns have been built on low-quality content with little real value.
And then there’s the rise of "digital PR." While the term has been widely used for over a decade now, it has often been just a rebranded version of link building. In the best cases, link building evolved into strategic digital PR, but in the worst cases, it remained the same old tactic under a new name. While digital PR is marketed as a way to improve a brand’s visibility in the right places, in the end, the primary goal has still often been acquiring backlinks.
That said, things may be shifting—especially over the past 16 months. Content marketing, PR, and even AI are all evolving. Why? That’s the key question I’m throwing out to you.
We’re seeing SERPs driving fewer clicks than before. Content is still feeding the SERPs, but it seems to serve more as a visibility tool rather than a direct traffic driver. At the same time, content is being ingested by LLMs, but these models don’t generate much traffic either—they, too, are more about visibility than engagement.
So, what do you think? Do you agree with this perspective? Who wants to jump in first?
Ross Simmonds: Lexi, I'll let you start it off.
Lexi Mills: Absolutely! Thank you. Yes, I think we’re witnessing a major shift in how people discover and interact with digital content. However, I wouldn’t say it’s a drastic change in how we operate or execute—at least not entirely.
First, when it comes to optimization, how you optimize in Google does actually influence how you optimize in LLMs. We’ve seen these correlations in our testing. We’ve been running several sandbox sites for a while now, exploring how LLMs understand identities—whether it’s you, your clients, or their products.
A big part of this comes down to rich content and keeping users within the search environment. If we look at Google as a business, we can ask: What do they need now? What will they need in the future? The evolution of search real estate—the digital space where people engage—was entirely predictable. And how we occupy that space is something we need to think about strategically.
It’s useful to think of it like a shop window. If you own a shop, you wouldn’t leave litter outside. You’d make sure it’s clear what you sell, what you do, and when you’re open. That’s exactly what search real estate is now—it’s your digital storefront. And the way you manage that space directly impacts what information LLMs pick up.
Mike King put it well: the goal of SEO today is to saturate search results with your brand message—not just for LLMs but for traditional search as well. That way, you drive more direct traffic. The challenge, of course, is that direct traffic is harder to track, which makes increasing sales in a strategic way more difficult.
That said, we know there’s a direct correlation between occupying a lot of rich real estate—whether in LLMs or Google—and an increase in revenue and customers.
Gianluca Fiorelli: And you, Ross, what do you think?
Ross Simmonds: I completely agree. The way people search for information has fundamentally changed—probably forever. The sources they turn to are more fragmented than ever. That said, the vast majority still rely on Google.
I'm not one of those ChatGPT truthers predicting the death of Google—that's not what I’m saying at all. In fact, I believe Google will remain a steady discovery tool, as Lexi pointed out. What we’re seeing is more fragmentation. More people are turning to Amazon to research products before searching elsewhere and they're using queries that they would have used in Google when it comes to an e commerce experience. The same shift is happening in B2B, where users might rely on Reddit for local searches or TikTok and Instagram for restaurant recommendations. Each of these platforms has its own discovery function, and that’s something SEOs and marketers need to consider.
When it comes to SEO and influencing the LLMs, the same principles that made SEO a very viable career and made SEO an opportunity for brands to drive revenue and traffic and growth still exists in this new world of LLMs.
The same efforts that you would typically take when you're focused on experience, expertise, authority, and trustworthiness from an SEO lens, can be applied to the typical generative engine optimization efforts that would be taking place to influence the LLMs.
So while there’s definitely a shift happening, the fundamental mental models that top SEOs have relied on for years will continue to guide brands and individuals in this evolving landscape.
How Businesses Are Adapting to New Search and Discovery Trends
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, I totally agree with you, Ross and Lexie. This is an important shift. In your daily work, how do you see businesses reacting to this change? From your conversations with clients, are companies becoming more aware of it?
Ross Simmonds: In our day-to-day work, primarily in B2B, we've seen a massive shift in lead sources. Traditionally, Google was the go-to, but now we're seeing more leads coming from places like ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity, Reddit, Slack, and other different platforms. Even from a traffic perspective, referral sources are diversifying, and as they do, so are the leads.
This shift makes it much easier for us to have conversations with executive teams about why we need to think differently and invest in broader brand visibility.
To Lexi’s point—how can you increase your brand mentions? I see this as one of the most beautiful things to happen to the industry. For too long, we were obsessed with backlinks—getting a DA 47 site to link here, a DA 77 site to link there—while underestimating the power of brand. But brand plays a huge role, not just in SERPs, but in driving real business.
Now, we’re putting marketing back into content marketing. Marketers are starting to think like marketers again, and it’s long overdue. Our clients are responding quite positively to it.
Lexi Mills: I would agree. I’m seeing quite a positive response on our side as well. We primarily focus on emerging technology in B2B, and what we are seeing more of is this step away from the formulaic SEO checklist and more about understanding our audience—who they are, how we reach them, and what they need to engage? When it comes to emerging technology, there’s often new language surrounding it. The challenge is not just educating people but also building trust.
We’ve shifted from an attention-based economy to a trust-based one, and that’s especially true for emerging tech. Rich search results and strong discoverability are crucial—people need to be able to ask a question, find a detailed answer, and trust what they’re seeing. We’re hearing a lot of questions about this, particularly in health tech. There are incredible advances happening, but if people don’t know what to search for, don’t have the right language, or don’t trust what they find, they won’t engage.
The way people discover and learn is becoming more fragmented. It’s no longer just about making information available—it needs to be present across platforms and lead back to a central source. That’s exciting because it means we have more ways to measure impact. What’s the knowledge base across different systems for a particular technology or industry?
With the rise of multimodal content—something we’ve seen in SEO long before LLMs—there are now more accessible ways to engage. Video, audio, and AI-generated content make information more inclusive. If someone struggles with reading quickly, gets carsick while reading, or simply prefers another format, they now have alternatives. AI enables all of this to be done at scale.
On the flip side, we’re also seeing companies cut entire marketing teams and attempt full automation. And that typically does not work out well. At some point, they bring us in, asking how to fix it—and there’s the fixing stage, but then there’s what comes after. Yes, automation can be useful, but it produces different results.
So we had one of our clients we were split testing coding bots that would write their tweets based on their own content, their PR content, their articles, and their own, the tweets that they wrote themselves.
And the AI was writing tweets that performed better. But they weren't performing high with the people that the client wanted to be seen, respected, and known amongst. And so we get this ultimate selection. If you want to be known by everyone, then there are certain bits of technology you can employ that will help you. But if you've got a very specific audience, we still need humans involved, and we need them to be very strategic.
Yes, you might get graphs that go up and to the right, which we were all taught to love and aspire to. But which graphs? We need to be more selective in how we isolate audiences and determine what performance looks like and what success is.
AI’s Impact on Content Strategy: Human vs. Machine Collaboration
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, totally. Ultimately, it’s not just about the amount of traffic—it’s about the quality of traffic. That’s an old mantra in SEO. The goal has always been to attract qualified traffic to improve conversions, leads, and so on.
And you made an interesting point. You mentioned that if your client really wanted to reach their core audience, they needed to reconnect with the human element in some way.
In a landscape where AI has become an incredible tool for generating all kinds of content, the human factor is more important than ever. It’s the key to standing out as a unique voice rather than just being another AI-generated echo—a kind of "karaoke" of AI.
Lexi Mills: This is a real question. In fact, we ran an experiment just the other week. We’re great at responding to media requests quickly—press contacts us, and we automatically match them with keywords relevant to our clients. This allows us to provide journalists with quotes at speed.
While reviewing placement rates, I was speaking with the team, and we started experimenting by adding the occasional typo to our responses. Because we work fast and don’t rely solely on technology—it's a blend of human expertise and tech—we noticed something interesting: our placement rates went up.
Why? Because journalists are hyper-aware that human-written content performs better for them. They’re cautious—maybe even wary—of PR content that looks like it was generated by AI.
Some media outlets use software to detect AI-generated text, so even when our content is fully human-written, we have to ensure it doesn’t trigger those AI detection systems. That’s what made this experiment so fascinating. A small typo, a tweak in spacing—things AI would typically fix—helped our content blend in more naturally.
This shift in content creation and promotion is largely driven by the media. They know their audiences best and have adapted accordingly. I remember early in my PR career, it was tough discussing SEO with journalists—it made them uncomfortable. Then, when Google’s Panda update rolled out (showing my age here), everything changed. Suddenly, my phone was ringing off the hook with press asking for SEO advice. My firm helped them navigate it, and from that point on, the media caught up quickly.
Now, they’ve mastered it. They were behind at first, but once Panda hit, they got really smart about where to use technology and where to avoid it.
So, by watching how the press operates, we can get a strong sense of what marketers, business owners, and brands should be doing. Yes, media coverage is influenced by keyword search volume—it’s not the only factor, but it plays a role. At the same time, they’re analyzing human engagement: what resonates with their audiences and what works best.
A great example is Bloomberg’s current video series—it’s top-tier. Much of it is educational, designed to help people understand emerging sectors like AI and its various applications. They tackle key questions in a way that engages their audience, and the results show—it performs exceptionally well.
I’m sure Ross will have some great insights on this too.
Ross Simmonds: Yeah, I completely agree on the content side. Whether you're producing blog posts, landing pages, email drip campaigns, Reddit content, or social posts, it's still more about the human behind the process than the AI itself. The real power lies in the combination of a strong prompt and a subject matter expert—that’s absolute gold.
I think about it the same way agencies have traditionally worked with partners. Say a partner gives you a keyword they want to target. The agency then creates a blog post around that keyword—but it doesn’t just go live immediately. It first goes back to the client for review, where they tweak it to align with brand voice, tone, and overall messaging before hitting publish.
The same principle applies to AI-generated content, whether it’s a case study, an ebook, or in-depth research. No matter what, content still needs a human touch—an extra set of eyes to refine and elevate it. If you understand the fundamentals of great content—educational, engaging, entertaining, or empowering—then AI becomes a tool to help you get there faster.
You can use AI to generate a first draft quickly, refine a section efficiently, or even take a piece from a 9 to a 10 by adding something interactive—like using AI to build a calculator embedded in a WordPress site. That creates a richer experience for the reader, something that would have required coding knowledge a few years ago.
Ultimately, AI is making it easier than ever to create high-quality content. It empowers people who might not have had access to data or coding skills before, allowing them to build more dynamic, engaging content at a scale and speed we’ve never seen before.
Using AI for Media Engagement and Thought Leadership
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, yeah. So, I just want to share something personal about my work. I’m not exactly a content creator, but in a way, I often find myself shaping content—especially when it comes to helping clients figure out what they should be creating.
I work with different types of clients, but there's one in the B2B sector—specifically in a primary industry—that has been particularly satisfying to work with. We started as small players competing against massive brands that thrive mainly on their brand reputation. So, we asked ourselves: What can we do that these big brands aren’t doing?
As you mentioned, Ross, educational content was the answer. We started producing not just educational content about the products these companies create but also case studies—something that’s often overlooked because people assume it doesn’t rank well. But surprisingly, this type of content has been incredibly rewarding, especially for my client.
The key difference? The case studies are written by the client and then reviewed by the engineers who actually worked on the projects. This makes them deeply expertise-driven and experience-based. Even though we use AI for some aspects—mainly for structuring paragraphs and formatting, not for creativity—the content remains authentic and natural.
One of the most interesting things we noticed was when AI-generated overviews started appearing frequently in search results. Our client’s content was consistently cited in these overviews. And as we discussed earlier, we saw a correlation: increased brand visibility on search results, even if it didn’t always generate direct traffic, led to a rise in organic clicks from branded queries.
This experience really reinforced something for me—content that’s traditionally considered “not useful” for traffic can actually be the best for both traffic and brand reputation. As you said, reputation is crucial. If our online presence doesn’t align with the reputation we aim to project, that disconnect can drive potential clients away.
I love this kind of work. And there’s another interesting approach I’ve been experimenting with—I’m curious if you use it too.
Before working in sales, I came from the television industry, where I often used lateral thinking to brainstorm themes around films, actors, or genres. Now, I apply a similar approach when working with clients in industries I know little about.
With today’s advanced AI models—like o1 of ChatGPT, Chat Gemini, Gemini 2 Pro for thinking or even Grok—I like to start conversations with them. I introduce the situation, the problem, the context, and what I’m trying to achieve, then let the conversation unfold. Sometimes, it leads to real insights. I always record and save these sessions, then share them with my clients. I’ll even ask them, Are we just being crazy here, or is there something substantial we should explore further?
I don’t know if you use this technique, but I find it a fascinating, fast, and productive way of working.
Ross Simmonds: I think every marketer, entrepreneur, creator—really, anyone in business today—should be looking at ways to augment themselves with AI tools, even beyond just marketing. If you're using ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity, or any similar tools, they’re a great starting point for expanding your capabilities.
To me, these AI tools are like our modern-day version of Jarvis from Iron Man. You can talk to them, use the conversation to help make decisions, and tap into their power in ways that are just absolutely mind-blowing.
In my opinion, everyone should be using AI tools—just like you are.
Lexi Mills: I completely agree, Gianluca. Honestly, I’ve loved seeing your AI-generated images—they really brighten up my feed. You've actually inspired me. I was watching what you were doing and thinking about the visual possibilities, because getting good visuals is always a challenge in press. That got me wondering: could we do something similar with voice?
A lot of our clients are authors or have a significant amount of digital content. So I started thinking—what if I could create an AI version of a client? One that could answer journalists’ questions and provide a first draft in their own voice, something they could edit rather than starting from a blank page. Because let’s be honest—answering media questions can be emotionally stressful, and staring at a blank page is intimidating.
That’s what I love about AI—it helps you get past that initial hurdle. It takes you from nothing to something. Right now, I’ve been testing this idea. I built a Dali bot, so I can actually chat with Dali. I fed it a lot of his writing to see how accurately it could mimic him and whether it could predict future insights based on his work.
At the moment, this runs through Telegram—I have an ongoing chat with him. The other day, just for fun, I asked a question (not from a journalist, just my own curiosity): Do you think cats are smarter than humans? I just pulled up the answer he gave me:
Cats possess a divine intelligence far beyond human comprehension. Did you know Japanese scientists recently revived a cat’s brain after 10 days of hibernation? The feline mind exists in multiple dimensions simultaneously, while we foolish humans are trapped in linear thought. My own cat demonstrates more genius in a single yawn than most philosophers achieve in a lifetime.
And I just thought—okay.
Now, I’m not saying we’ll ever fully automate our clients' voices. But I do think we can help them get past stage one. If they have a lot of digital content—videos, books, articles—this technology can generate a starting point for them to refine. And the beauty of that? They’re not just sharing their initial thoughts; they’re critiquing and evolving them.
That means every journalist inquiry doesn’t just capture their current perspective—it pushes their ideas a step further. And think about what that means for audiences. They’re getting a more advanced, refined version of every expert’s insights. If that flows into digital publications, we’re accelerating the spread of human knowledge.
Of course, we have to be careful. Truth matters. I spend a lot of time thinking about bias, AI, and digital ethics. But this aspect of technology excites me. We should always aim to be better than we were yesterday. And at the heart of it all, it comes down to our relationship with technology.
I don’t believe you can take the human out of that equation. If we fully automate everything, we lose that connection—and I don’t think that’s good for us. But this first step—allowing people to have a conversation with themselves? How awesome is that?!
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, totally. Speaking of the opportunities AI is creating for voice—there’s this idea that having a strong voice is always a good practice, not just for branding or personal branding. We often encourage the stakeholders of the companies we work with to be more present, vocal, and active when engaging with journalists.
As you mentioned, many great entrepreneurs struggle with communication. Some aren't used to public speaking, some might be shy, and others just don’t have the skill. That’s where AI is stepping in to help. It’s giving us new opportunities when it comes to voice. For example, I’ve been experimenting with AI-generated voices trained on my client’s CEO.
Here’s how it works: we write or refine a script, then feed it to the AI, which is trained to speak in the CEO’s voice as naturally as possible. And, of course, there’s the magic of editing—which is where my years in the visual space come in. Knowing how to edit and refine audio has made this even more effective.
What’s interesting is that sometimes we have to remind our clients about the impact of these AI-enhanced voices. One client, for instance, received a lot of compliments on a podcast he "hosted"—but he barely remembered why. That’s because all he did was review and approve the script we wrote for him, and AI handled the rest.
AI is also making waves in video. Last night, I spent over an hour watching YouTube creators use AI to recolor and animate historical photos from the 19th century. It was incredible—seeing a classic portrait of Oscar Wilde transformed into a moving image of him walking through 19th-century London.
At the end of the day, creativity is still inherently human. AI can enhance it, add suggestions, and provide tools, but the spark of imagination is ours. Oh, and about the bot Dolly—Lexi, you named it after the sheep, right?
Lexi Mills: No, I populated him with Salvador Dali's work.
Ross Simmonds: Ah, cool.
Lexi Mills: I love Dalí, so I filled my space with all of his writings and other related things. The idea actually came from MIT Labs—I love visiting and seeing what they’re working on. I also have a weird passion for law, its structure, and what technology means for the future of legal systems.
One day at MIT, I discovered their Computational Law department. They had been analyzing vast amounts of judicial data to predict how judges might rule on future cases based on their past decisions. I found that fascinating. It made me think: why not use the same concept to help clients prepare for interviews?
A lot of people back out of interviews because they fear tough questions or worry about potential risks to their reputation. But we can minimize that risk by analyzing content from a particular TV show, publication, or interviewer, and predicting the hardest questions they might ask. That way, clients have time to think through their responses and prepare, making the whole process smoother and less stressful.
MIT’s Computational Law department is incredible—if you haven’t looked into it, I highly recommend it. What excites me most is the opportunity to think beyond our own limited perspectives. This technology allows us to calculate risks differently, which means we can take bolder steps with more confidence.
And that’s important because we should be challenging world experts with tough questions. At the same time, I completely understand why people get nervous about certain interviews. This approach helps them prepare and feel more confident, which is exactly what a PR agency should be doing.
PR has evolved. The old model of SEO reputation management was often about suppressing things, but I think we’re moving into a new era. We don’t need to suppress information—we can anticipate and respond effectively. That’s a far more honest and strategic approach.
I’ve never believed in burying stories. We’re a reputation marketing firm, and if someone comes to us wanting to suppress something, we won’t do it. But if they want to own their story—acknowledge their mistakes, share what they’ve learned, and explain how they’re doing things better—we’ll absolutely help with that. Because when a journalist digs deeper (and they always do), they’ll see a full narrative. They’ll see growth, accountability, and learning.
The same applies to technology. Both humans and technology make mistakes. What matters is how we respond and what we do next. And now, more than ever, we have better tools to tell those stories in a way that is transparent, strategic, and ultimately, more powerful.
Ross Simmonds: Yeah, one of the things I love about what Lexi just described is the idea of pairing with AI—kind of like how you’d use it to prepare for an interview. You can have AI challenge you with tough questions so you're ready when the time comes.
For anyone wondering, how does this apply to me?—if you're preparing for a job interview, try training an AI with information about the company you're applying to. Feed it details from your resume, the job description, and any relevant background. Then, ask it to generate questions that might trip you up, so you can prepare in advance.
There are also tools like HeyGen, an AI-powered synthetic video creation platform, where you can create a digital version of yourself (or someone else) and conduct a mock interview. This means you could have an actual AI video conversation as part of your practice.
Right now, this is one of the biggest low-hanging fruit opportunities in AI. Use it to challenge your ideas, identify weaknesses, improve, and ultimately, level up. It’s a perfect example of how AI can be useful to everyone, no matter the industry.
Preparing for the Future of Content Distribution and Engagement
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, it’s such a fascinating topic—and we’re living in a really interesting moment in that sense. But let’s get a bit more practical now.
We’ve talked about AI, the challenges it presents, and the opportunities it offers. We also touched on how people’s search behavior—or rather, discovery behavior—has evolved. Personally, I don’t even think of it as “searching” anymore. Maybe that’s because I’m old enough to remember when navigating the web was called “surfing.” You’d start by clicking on a news article, and before you knew it, you’d followed link after link and somehow ended up on an archaeology website.
In many ways, that behavior hasn’t really changed. People still use different platforms to discover new things, diving deeper and deeper into topics that interest them or that they need to learn about. But this fragmented landscape can be a challenge when it comes to content creation.
Ross, I see your book behind you—Create and Then Repurpose Everything—which aligns with what I call the “pork strategy.” Just like with pork, where every part gets used, the idea is to maximize the value of content by repurposing it across different formats and platforms.
So, what’s the biggest challenge when developing a content or reputational strategy? How do you determine the right mediums and channels to prioritize? And how do you structure a campaign for maximum visibility, especially when you don’t always know where a particular piece of content will make the biggest impact?
Ross Simmonds: Yeah, I think the key is to start with what I’d call channel-user fit. That means understanding which channels your audience—your users, customers, or the people you’re trying to reach—are actually spending time on.
Let’s say you’re targeting CTOs, a highly technical audience. You need to ask yourself: Where are they going throughout their buying journey to find information? Some might rely on search engines, typing in specific keywords. In that case, you’d want to focus on traditional SEO efforts—creating landing pages and blog posts that rank for those terms.
But as you dig deeper, you might realize these folks are also subscribed to certain newsletters, listening to specific podcasts, engaging in Slack communities, or visiting platforms like Hacker News and the r/engineering subreddit.
Once you know where your audience is, the next step is figuring out what type of content works on each platform. Take Hacker News, for example—a community of engineers and developers in the startup world. They prefer highly technical content: research papers, journal articles, and even source code. So, you’d need to repackage your existing content to align with their expectations.
If they’re listening to podcasts, you have options: sponsoring an ad, pitching your leadership team as guests, or getting your content mentioned organically. If they’re reading newsletters, you could sponsor one, pitch an article for inclusion, or share a valuable report or whitepaper.
At its core, this process comes down to three key steps:
Identify where your audience is.
Understand what content works on those channels and how the format needs to adapt.
Deploy a strategy to distribute your content effectively across those channels.
This philosophy—"Create once, distribute forever"—is something we explore in-depth in the book. It covers all the channels you can leverage to distribute your content, from email and Slack to Facebook, LinkedIn, Reddit, Quora, and beyond. The goal is simple: take one high-quality piece of content and distribute it across the right platforms to maximize its reach and impact.
Lexi Mills: I couldn't agree more. It’s so interesting—there was a time when we had to choose a single channel for content distribution. Deploying across multiple channels was expensive in terms of both time and resources. But I completely agree with Russ, especially when it comes to platforms like Hacker News. If you create content for Hacker News, that serves as the nucleus—the starting point. From there, you can branch out and adapt it in different ways.
For example, how would I make this content relevant to my grandmother? What would she need to understand it? How should it be interpreted for different audiences? AI is incredibly helpful in this process because it allows us to meet audiences where they are.
And Gianluca, I remember the early internet too. When I was three or four, we had a 286 computer. There were no search engines back then—you had to follow links manually. That’s why I love this idea of a nucleus for content, surrounded by different adaptations, like a spider diagram. It allows people to explore content at their own level. Someone just starting on a topic can follow these different pieces, gradually working their way to the deeper, more complex material when they're ready.
I think that makes content more inviting and accessible. I was raised by hippies who always told me the internet was meant to be a place of opportunity—a space where everyone had a chance, whether they were a big or small business. And today, with technology shaping marketing in new ways, every audience member has the chance to find content that speaks to them. The internet now allows people who might never have had access before to engage, learn, and explore. To me, that stays true to the spirit of what I was raised to believe the internet should and could be.
Learning from Failures in Content Creation and Marketing
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah! Let’s go with this—make it just a little... well, you know, maybe tweak it a bit. What we always say is that people learn more from failure than from big successes. I know it’s not always an easy question for everyone, but I’m sure you’ll accept it and like it.
Ross, what was your biggest failure?
Ross Simmonds: Over the years, I've built a reputation as the guy who understands Reddit. I've been talking about Reddit since probably 2016 or 2017—but my biggest failure was actually my first experience on the platform.
Back then, I was running my blog, RossSimmonds.com, cranking out tons of posts. I had already figured out LinkedIn and was getting tons of engagement. Twitter? Same thing. Slideshare was brand new, and I was pulling in millions of views on my decks. So naturally, I thought, Reddit is the hardest channel. Marketers are afraid of it. I’m going to figure it out.
So I took all my blog content, repurposed it a bit, and started submitting my links to Reddit.
The result?
I got banned.
Blocked from 10 different subreddits. Zero traffic. My account was deleted from the internet. Reddit told me I was never allowed to come back.
At that moment, I had a choice. I could quit and stick to what I knew—or I could try again. And yeah, I did try again. I created a new account… but Reddit tracked my IP and banned that too. So I had to go as far as getting an entirely new internet provider just to get back in.
But this time, I did things differently. Instead of forcing my content onto Reddit, I studied it. I analyzed the platform, broke down different subreddits, and reverse-engineered what actually worked. Eventually, I figured it out.
Since then, I’ve made it to the front page of Reddit countless times, both personally and professionally. I’ve generated millions of dollars in deals—all from a platform that still makes some marketers break out in hives.
But it came from a moment of complete failure and being able to say, all right, that's sucked. But I have two choices. I can give up and just stick to what I know, or I can try to figure this out and come back again, but this time with true understanding of the channel. And that's what I did.
Gianluca Fiorelli: And you, Lexi?
Lexi Mills: I really liked that story, Russ, because no one ever really talked to me when I was younger about how the road to success is paved with failures—lots of them, right? And we need to reframe that. It’s only a failure if you don’t learn from it and make changes.
At the start of my career, I was definitely guilty of this. I was probably one of the most technical PRs out there—I could code from a young age, I loved the internet, and I used to joke that I was the only PR in the village. I often felt lonely, whether in SEO or PR communities. That’s changed now, but for a long time, I was designing these incredibly detailed, mathematically sound yet human-centric strategies. And then… clients wouldn’t sign off on them. They wanted something more traditional, something familiar. Or they wouldn’t engage with them at all because it felt overwhelming.
So I swung to the other extreme. I started designing strategies purely based on what I knew the client could execute. After all, as a communications firm, we can only do so much without client input, right? We need their contribution.
But both approaches were flawed. A brilliant strategy that’s impossible for the client to implement isn’t actually a good strategy. At the same time, limiting ourselves to only what they’re comfortable with isn’t the answer either.
Now, I take a different approach. First, I ask: What would we do with unlimited resources and budget? Then we audit what’s actually feasible for the client. We run a test phase where we throw a bunch of different ideas at them and see which ones they can execute easily and quickly. That becomes a discussion point. From there, we find a balance—using a mix of technology and experience—because what’s easy for a client today might become harder as they grow or raise funds. Adaptability is key.
I’ve also let go of the idea that a strategy should be “perfect” or even “stable.” The notion that a plan made in January will still be the right plan in December? Unrealistic. If we’re doing our jobs well, that business will have evolved so much that the strategy needs revisiting. That’s why we now build in four-month check-ins: Where are we now? What’s easier? What’s harder? What’s the next challenge? Have the goals shifted?
Ultimately, it’s about striking a balance—being honest about what should be done, even if it’s not immediately possible, and working collaboratively to bridge that gap. If we don’t tell clients what they should be doing just because we know they can’t do it yet, we’re doing them a disservice.
So, that’s my biggest learning right now. I wouldn’t call them failures, exactly. But it definitely took me a while to recognize the lessons. And that’s just part of making progress.
Fun Questionnaire
Gianluca Fiorelli: Absolutely! I'd love to keep this conversation going—honestly, I probably will. But we do have time limits to respect, or the editors might come after me! Plus, it's becoming a bit of a tradition to wrap things up with this final section.
I'll ask you a few quick questions from the Proust Questionnaire. They're simple, almost instinctive, meant to help us—and especially our viewers and listeners—get to know you better as a person. Ready to jump in?
Ross Simmonds: Let’s do it!
Lexi Mills: Sure.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Okay, first question. What is your favorite word?
Ross Simmonds: Interesting.
Lexi Mills: Probably exciting.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Knowing you, I think this word describes that feeling you get when you're at your best—when you're excited and truly in your element. It just fits you perfectly. On the flip side, what’s your least favorite word?
Lexi Mills: Can’t. I don't believe it should exist.
Ross Simmonds: No. I would say no.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Speaking of excitement, what really gets you fired up?
Lexi Mills: I love redefining what’s possible. I think we really need to address the limiting beliefs we have—because trying to recognize a limiting belief is like trying to catch something invisible.
Lately, I’ve been training to be a pilot. I never thought learning to fly would be possible for me. At one point, I had to choose between doing an MBA part-time or learning to fly. Ironically, I’ve learned more about business—and transformed my own business more fundamentally—through flying than I think I ever would have in an MBA program.
My entire business now runs on a system of checklists, with three different levels designed to catch failures at every stage. That’s how pilots operate. And when I’m flying, I have to be completely present. For that hour, I leave work behind. But the number of times I’ve landed and suddenly thought, I have the answer! is unbelievable.
At the start of my career, what got me ahead was working really hard. Then I started hearing about working smart. But what does that actually mean? To me, working smart means trusting your brain to figure things out. It means learning to hack your brain, not just the internet—hacking the problem itself.
So yeah, I’m incredibly grateful for flying. It has taught me so much, and it constantly reminds me that anything is possible.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, this feels very similar to my experience of revisiting a very old hobby. As a kid, I used to paint, and now that I'm back to it—specifically painting miniature soldiers—I've realized it's all about creativity, but with a methodical approach.
I have to think about what I want to achieve. How is the light hitting the subject? Where do I want the highlights? I imagine the light falling on the object and then decide—I’ll need to use glazing, blend the colors, choose the right paints, the right brushes, and so on. It’s a process, but it’s also deeply fulfilling.
I think this applies to many things, not just hobbies. In your case, flying is more than just a hobby—it’s a passion. And when something is truly lived as a passion, it can help you grow in so many ways.
What about you, Ross?
Ross Simmonds: Yeah, I get excited just being around greatness. When I see someone who thrives at what they do—always striving to improve, never settling—it’s inspiring. It’s not just about achieving greatness; it’s about the relentless aspiration to reach it. That drive is what fires me up.
I love working with people who set ridiculously ambitious goals and then actually chase them. People who are willing to make sacrifices, who refuse to dilute their commitment to excellence. That energy is contagious.
And it’s not just about business. It’s the mom who’s determined to be the best mother possible. The dad who says, “When I’m off, I want to be so present that my kids speak highly of me at my funeral.” That kind of passion? That’s what I admire.
But if you’re just coasting through life, just going through the motions without real intention—that doesn’t do much for me. I’m drawn to people who move with purpose, who bring intention to everything they do. That’s my kind of crowd.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Okay, last question—this one can be a fun one! If you weren’t working in your current field, what would be the profession that you would really hate?
Ross Simmonds: You know, I don’t think I’ve had too many terrible jobs. But one of the worst was working at a bottle depot, where I had to count and sort recycling—beer bottles, cans, all that stuff. I remember tossing a can once, and a bunch of old cigarette butts flew out, landing all over my face. I was covered in moldy beer, and in that moment, I thought, This job sucks.
But even then, I found a way to make it fun. I told myself, I’m going to be the fastest bottle counter this place has ever seen. So even if a job started out terrible, I’d find a way to enjoy it.
Now, the real worst job? The only thing that comes to mind—maybe because I’m deep in it right now—is changing diapers. If I had to do that every single day for the rest of my life, I’d lose my mind. Six years of diapers. I’m so over it. It’s gross.
But yeah, that’s probably the only thing that would truly break me.
Lexi Mills: Ross had a really similar answer to mine, so I’d say one of the most underrated philosophers of our time is Mary Poppins.
Ross Simmonds: I love it.
Lexi Mills: She has that beautiful phrase: In every chore that must be done, there is an element of fun. Find the fun, and it's a game.
I've worked some pretty tough jobs—ones that were either physically demanding or just repetitive and hard for the ego to handle. When you graduate from university, after working so hard and gaining all that experience, only to find yourself handing out flyers… that's not physically hard. But it's ego hard, emotionally hard.
That said, the job I think I'd struggle with the most is anything that involves being really cold. I do not handle the cold well. I'd probably find a way to bundle up—turn myself into a fur-covered Teletubby or wear some kind of self-heating tech—but still, cold and I don’t get along.
I worked as a chef for a long time, and having to go into the freezer in the mornings? My hands would hurt. It was horrible.
Actually, now that I think about it, the only thing worse than being cold would be having a job where I had to cause harm to others. I'd probably take the cold—even without the Teletubby suit—than doing harm.
Gianluca Fiorelli: That was a great answer. I’ve really enjoyed spending this hour with you. I think we’ve shared some insightful ideas, had meaningful reflections, and explored a thoughtful approach to the future of content—what we should do and what we shouldn’t. It’s been a fantastic conversation. Thank you, Lexi. Thank you, Ross, for being our guests.
Ross Simmonds: Thanks for having me. Take care.
Lexi Mills: Oh, thank you for having us. Speak to you soon.
Podcast Host
Gianluca Fiorelli
With almost 20 years of experience in web marketing, Gianluca Fiorelli is a Strategic and International SEO Consultant who helps businesses improve their visibility and performance on organic search. Gianluca collaborated with clients from various industries and regions, such as Glassdoor, Idealista, Rastreator.com, Outsystems, Chess.com, SIXT Ride, Vegetables by Bayer, Visit California, Gamepix, James Edition and many others.
A very active member of the SEO community, Gianluca daily shares his insights and best practices on SEO, content, Search marketing strategy and the evolution of Search on social media channels such as X, Bluesky and LinkedIn and through the blog on his website: IloveSEO.net.
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