Welcome to another episode of The Search Session! I'm your host, Gianluca Fiorelli, and today we're tackling the big question: how is AI impacting agencies?
To help us unpack this, we have two incredible guests: Heather Physioc, Chief Discoverability Officer at VML, and Kevin Gibbons, founder of Re:signal. We're diving deep into how AI is reshaping agencies, from workflow efficiency to the very definition of search itself. Join us as we explore the challenges and opportunities of this AI revolution, and how SEO professionals can adapt to stay ahead.
Get ready for a fascinating discussion. Let's welcome Heather and Kevin!
Transcript
Gianluca Fiorelli: Hi, and welcome back to The Search Session, the video podcast series that takes you straight into the future of search and digital marketing.
Meet Our Guests: Heather Physioc & Kevin Gibbons
Today, we’re diving into how the changes we’re experiencing in the industry are affecting agencies. And who better to discuss this with than Heather Physioc and Kevin Gibbons?
Heather is the Chief Discoverability Officer at VML, a global creative agency. And when we say global, we mean it—offices all over the world, even in Mongolia!
Kevin Gibbons, on the other hand, is the founder of Resignal, a highly respected agency in our industry. He’s a firm believer that success comes from strong strategy, teamwork, and collaboration. And the proof? Resignal has won dozens of search awards with some truly outstanding entries.
But Heather isn’t just a marketer—because, let’s be real, no one is just a marketer. She has an incredible side passion: photography and nature. And if you share that love, you’ll definitely want to check out her Instagram, where she showcases some stunning shots.
So, let’s welcome Heather and Kevin! How are you doing?
Heather Physioc: Well. Thank you for having us.
Kevin Gibbons: Very good. Thank you.
AI - Challenge or Opportunity for Agencies?
Gianluca Fiorelli: In past episodes, we've often explored the impact AI is having on our work as marketers—not just in terms of our daily tasks, but also as a way to rethink our entire approach. Because AI isn’t just a tool; it’s more like a revolution, if you will.
So, when we look at it in the context of an agency, does the rise of AI present a challenge, a sea of opportunities, or a mix of both?
Heather Physioc: So the way we're thinking about it at VML, the way we're talking about it mainly with clients is kind of through three key lenses. The first is of course, how we can augment and accelerate our work and do more, better search work faster. A lot of the stuff that used to be a really manual grind is picking up speed, and we're able to deliver really great stuff for clients more efficiently than we were before.That’s great news—and a big opportunity for SEO.
Right now, the second major way we’re thinking about SEO is how it’s reshaping the search landscape. People can search in more ways and more places than before, which means brands have new opportunities to show up. This shift is creating entirely new types of search real estate and experiences, and we need to figure out how brands can be a part of them.
But there’s another key factor that I don’t think the industry is talking about enough: how AI is permanently changing searcher expectations and behaviors.
Think about how search evolved when mobile devices became widespread. We learned to search "near me open now," and then realized we didn’t have to include "near me" because our phones already knew our location. Later, with the rise of IoT and voice search, we adapted again—searching out loud, using more natural language.
Now, we're seeing the early signs of another major transformation. AI is shaping how people search and what they expect from brands when they do. And that’s something we need to be ready for.
Kevin.
Kevin Gibbons: Yeah, I think that’s a great summary of where we are right now. I’d agree on those key points—especially when it comes to how we use AI to help our clients. For us, it’s all about efficiency, research, and improving workflows. AI isn’t about writing a strategy; it’s about making the process more efficient.
I’ve seen quotes saying that 95% of marketing tasks will be automated in the future. I take that with a grain of salt, but I also wouldn’t dismiss it entirely. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle. Strategy—understanding what needs to be done, how it aligns with a client’s challenges, their market, and how to refine, test, and experiment—still requires human experience. But AI certainly brings efficiency and opportunities to optimize processes.
Behavioral shifts are key here. If behaviors weren’t changing, this wouldn’t be a big deal. We’ve seen past innovations, like Google Wave and voice search, that didn’t pan out exactly as expected. But AI feels different. The level of investment and the push to integrate it into real-world applications is massive. And we’re only scratching the surface—imagine where this will be in two, three, or even five to ten years.
I think back to when I started in SEO in 2003. Google had only been around for a few years, but by then, it was already the dominant player. That hasn’t really changed—until now. For the first time, Google faces serious competition from AI-driven tools like ChatGPT and Perplexity, and that’s reshaping the search journey.
Right now, AI is incredibly useful for research, but when it comes to transactional searches—where customers are ready to buy—Google still dominates. The key question is: how does AI fit into the broader customer lifecycle? And how do we integrate that into client strategies?
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, totally. I think part of the fascination with AI for the mainstream public comes from the way it’s reshaping search behavior. This shift in how people search isn’t just happening now—it’s been in motion for years.
I remember, maybe three summers ago, Google itself mentioned at Google I/O (or in some other public discussion) that it’s no longer the only search engine. Younger generations are increasingly using Instagram and TikTok to search—especially for things like restaurants and places to visit—treating them like actual search engines rather than just social media platforms.
Before that, YouTube was often called the "second biggest search engine in the world," practically a tagline for the platform. This all ties into what my friend Giorgio Tavernetti, an Italian SEO expert, refers to as "liquid search"—the idea that search is fluid, like water. It doesn’t just start and end on traditional search engines. It can begin with spotting something on the street or TV, then seeing it again on social media, then searching for it, and bouncing back and forth between search and social platforms until it eventually leads to a conversion.
AI is accelerating this evolution. Models like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and other advanced research tools are changing how we search. Personally, I use AI for deep research all the time—it’s helping us relearn how to search, just like we did in the pre-digital era.
Heather Physioc: It’s interesting that we’ve defined search the way Google has since the very beginning—essentially shaping our entire understanding of what search even means. Even as search has fragmented across platforms—what you might call "liquid search," where people move between different lanes and sources—search experts have continued to focus almost exclusively on Google. And that has made sense because, as Kevin mentioned, Google once held 91% of the global search market share, and they've maintained that dominance for years—especially in Europe.
But now, we have to acknowledge that while Google is a great portal to everything on the web, it’s not always the most efficient or effective way to accomplish certain tasks. If you're shopping, it might make more sense to start directly on a retailer like Amazon or Walmart. If you're looking for inspiration, Google search results probably aren’t your go-to—but Pinterest or TikTok might be.
That’s what makes this such an exciting time for search. It’s no longer just about Google. Platforms are recognizing search as a competitive advantage. TikTok is pulling in Gen Z users who might have once turned to Google. Pinterest has positioned itself as the inspirational search engine. Amazon dominates commerce-related searches. Emerging tech, new platforms, and AI are fundamentally reshaping the search experience and user behavior.
So I want to challenge the idea of search as just Google or just a platform. Instead, we should start thinking about search as a human mindset—about people trying to accomplish something specific in the most effective way possible.
Kevin Gibbons: I completely agree with that point. It’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking that the customer journey is just a straight line from awareness to consideration to conversion—starting and ending with search. But in reality, marketing involves a lot more moving parts.
Take SEO agencies, for example. If someone is looking for one, their first step probably isn’t going straight to Google. Instead, they might start by asking trusted industry peers for recommendations. Google still plays a role, of course—once they have a few names in mind, they might use search to do their own research. That’s where branded search becomes important. But even then, they had to hear about that brand somewhere before they ever typed it into Google.
It’s also crucial to recognize the role other platforms play and how they integrate with offline advertising. Understanding how customers discover and engage with your brand at different touchpoints is key. Google is a major player, no doubt—it has a huge slice of the pie when it comes to conversions. But it’s not the only source. And when you look at the entire customer journey, it’s unlikely to be the only platform they rely on.
So it’s worth taking a step back and really thinking about who your customers are and what you need to do at each stage of their journey to attract them.
How Clients are Reacting to AI in Search
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, I totally agree. And you probably have an even better perspective on this than I do since I’m an SEO consultant. I only get a limited number of people reaching out or pitching me for work, whereas you have a much broader view of the situation from the client side.
How are clients reacting to all these AI developments? Are they worried? Excited? Do they feel the need to adapt and make sure they stay visible—like in ChatGPT, for example? And more importantly, do they even understand what’s really happening?
We’re in a transition phase where AI-driven search tools like ChatGPT and Perplexity are gaining market share, but Google is still the dominant player. And now, with Gemini, Google is also fully embracing AI. In the future, search results will likely become even more personalized—essentially, AI Overviews on steroids.
So, how are clients responding to these sudden shifts?
Kevin Gibbons: To answer your question to either they are a bit excited or are they scared, the answer is Yes to both. They certainly don't want to be left behind. Sitting back and doing nothing—only to realize that a key source of traffic and revenue is slowly disappearing, with competitors stepping in—is a scary thought. It’s also an opportunity. But right now, I don’t think there’s enough evidence to justify shifting a significant budget in that direction.
At this stage, it’s more of an experimentation phase. It’s about testing the waters, trying different approaches, and figuring out what works. Until there’s clear ROI and a strong forecast showing increased demand, it’s unlikely that companies will allocate a large portion of their budget to it.
That said, no one has all the answers—not even the platforms themselves. But businesses certainly don’t want to be left behind.
For example, we have two clients with very different approaches. One is heavily procurement-led and wants us to demonstrate efficiency gains over time using AI. They’ve researched the space, they know there are tools out there that can improve productivity, and they encourage us to use them—not for content creation or strategy, but for things like research and workflow improvements.
On the other hand, another client has a strict policy stating that AI must not be used under any circumstances. Even if we wanted to, they’re not comfortable with it, and their stance is to let others experiment first. If and when they feel the technology is ready, they may reconsider.
Neither approach is inherently right or wrong. It all comes down to company culture, values, and long-term strategy. As an agency, it’s our job to align with that and support their vision.
Heather Physioc: I’d agree—I'm getting mixed reactions. Some people are incredibly excited, eager to innovate, and right on the cutting edge. Others are more hesitant, even fearful, about the risks.
I also agree that I’m not seeing anyone shift all their resources into AI just yet. But those who are adopting it are showing real interest. Their motivations vary—some see AI as a huge cost-saving opportunity, others are driven by the competitive edge of being first, and some are viewing it through a customer-centric lens. They’re thinking, My customers’ needs and expectations are changing, and it’s my responsibility to keep up.
For the past couple of years, we’ve been actively helping our clients prepare for this shift—making AI feel more approachable, less intimidating, and easier to understand. The goal has been to help them figure out if they should take action, where to focus, and how to respond to AI’s impact.
Honestly, for a while, it felt eerily quiet—almost like people were relieved to have someone confidently guiding them. But in the last couple of months, there’s been a noticeable shift. Clients are now asking more proactively about AI search and what it means for their brand. It feels like it’s really sinking in, and they’re getting ready to dive in.
How Agencies Are Adapting to AI Without Losing Their Edge
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, when I talk about AI with clients, it's not just about visibility in AI environments. It’s also about how we’ve traditionally used technology to make our work easier or to accomplish things that, due to budget constraints or other limitations, weren’t always possible before.
Now, with AI, some of those limitations are disappearing. I’m not saying we should rely on AI to create entire short films on its own. But, for instance, AI can help us develop features for e-commerce that improve visualization—like showing customers how a pair of glasses or boots would look on them in a more efficient and cost-effective way.
It’s more than just replacing old-school chatbots that frustrated users with pre-recorded, rigid responses. AI can enhance websites and user experiences in ways we couldn’t before.
And then there’s another angle—the impact on teams and employees. I know from friends in agencies that there’s a mix of excitement about AI’s possibilities, but also some fear. What happens if AI evolves so much that certain roles are no longer needed?
So, how do you reassure your people? Yes, there are challenges, but what about the opportunities AI brings?
Kevin Gibbons: Yeah, that's a good point. I get terrible flashbacks when you mention chatbots—some of them are just awful. I don’t even think they have "I," let alone AI! But I get what you're saying about improving them—if you can make them better, it’s instantly worthwhile. And I also see the bigger picture in terms of how AI is shaping the future of education and technology.
On another note, when we talk about how people discover content—whether it’s on platforms like TikTok or through tools like LLMs (Perplexity, ChatGPT, etc.)—it's clear that different audiences engage in different ways. For instance, TikTok and Instagram are crucial for brands targeting younger demographics. But AI is a bit different. It’s not just another platform—it’s central to how all these platforms operate. Even if someone says, "We just use Google, we don’t use AI," the reality is that Google itself is powered by AI. So understanding how search results and recommendations are influenced by AI is essential—you can’t ignore it.
Another important point is how AI is reshaping the workforce, especially for those entering industries like search. Traditionally, there’s been a clear career path—starting as a graduate or exec-level employee, moving up to analyst, then strategist, and eventually working on bigger clients and more complex strategies. But with AI taking over certain entry-level tasks, there’s a risk that new professionals won’t get the foundational experience they need to grow into those strategic roles.
From an agency perspective, this could create a long-term challenge. If AI handles more of the early-stage work, how do we ensure that new talent still develops the skills to lead client strategies down the line? It’s something that might need to evolve within the industry. I’m not sure if it’s been explored in great depth yet, but it’s definitely a concern for those at the start of their careers.
Gianluca Fiorelli: And what do you think, Heather?
Heather Physioc: I just spent the past week speaking at several universities, including the University of Missouri. One thing that really stood out was how concerned students are about the ethical implications of AI. They’re genuinely thinking about these issues, which is something to keep in mind for anyone looking to hire the next generation of talent.
When it comes to preparing our workforce for AI, our approach is to be proactive, not reactive. Knowledge is power, right? So we’re making AI a core part of our discoverability strategy across three key pillars: how we do the work, where our brands show up, and what our customers are doing.
The biggest focus for us right now is reducing friction in our work. That’s been an easy sell for search talent, because let’s be honest—our industry has been doing things manually for a long time. Even those just entering the field are looking at processes like large data set analysis or keyword categorization and thinking, There has to be a better way to do this. And they’re right—many of these tasks should be at least partially automated. There’s a lot of excitement about AI’s potential in that space.
At the same time, we’re being very intentional about building training and learning resources so people can integrate AI tools into their workflow. Our agency has a proprietary AI platform called WPP Open, which brings together all the major AI models—LLMs, DALL·E, Gemini, ChatGPT—into one secure, centralized tool. This gives us seamless access to AI technologies for client work.
Our focus right now is all about adoption and experimentation. The best way to lead our industry and guide our clients through this transformation is to dive in, test things out, and share what we learn.
Of course, there’s some trepidation—especially with external economic and political pressures here in the U.S. There’s uncertainty, and that naturally fuels concerns about AI replacing jobs. But our approach is to own it, embrace it, master it, and be confident in how we use AI to create value for our clients.
Hope that helps! Just wanted to add a little perspective.
AI vs. Human Creativity: Finding the Right Balance
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, I totally agree. Even though I’m not an agency consultant, based on my own experience, one of the biggest positive side effects I’ve noticed is how much time I can now save. So many tasks that used to feel tedious—like manually tweaking title tags or meta descriptions—can now be optimized and even automated more efficiently than before.
This is especially true for complex languages like Italian, Spanish, or German, where gendered words and different tenses often create challenges in international SEO. In the past, we’d frequently get things wrong, but AI is finally making this process more manageable. That’s a huge win.
But the most important thing I’ve observed isn’t just about automation—it’s how AI helps with deep research and structured thinking. I often use Gemini, but I also experiment with other AI models, including OpenAI, especially when I have an idea in my head that I can’t fully articulate. AI helps me shape my thoughts by allowing me to interact with them in a sort of iterative conversation. Of course, I’m always mindful that AI tends to be biased toward pleasing the user—it might say, "Oh, you’re doing great!" when I actually need an honest critique. That’s why I make a point to tell it: "Don’t sugarcoat things—be real with me."
This process helps me find the right progression of thought, even when my ideas feel a little chaotic. I remember hearing someone say that AI can "augment" human thinking, and I believe that’s exactly what’s happening. It’s almost like we’re becoming Neuromancer-style marketers, enhanced by AI’s capabilities.
That’s why I think agencies, consultants, and brands that embrace AI while still prioritizing the human factor will be the ones that truly stand out. Do you agree? And how are you incorporating this mindset into your work—both with your team and your clients?
Kevin Gibbons: I think part of understanding AI tools is just using them. Like you were saying, the more you use them, the more you start to see where they’re actually useful. A recent example for me was booking a holiday—I relied heavily on Perplexity, and it really helped streamline my search. I liked how it provided a one-page summary of information, making it easy to compare different options. It’s especially great for things like “Where should I go on holiday in Europe this summer?” or “What are the pros and cons of different destinations?”
Once you start identifying useful cases for yourself, you can begin to reverse-engineer how the tool works. You might think, Oh, this is quite useful—where are these results coming from? It reminds me a bit of doing SEO back in 2003. In some ways, it feels like a step backward—looking at sources manually and assessing their credibility.
For example, last week, I searched for the best SEO agencies in the UK. Out of the ten or so results listed, I had only heard of two—even though I’ve been in this industry for 20 years. That tells me the sources being pulled in aren’t necessarily the most authoritative. But at the same time, people are searching for this type of information, and AI is surfacing something, even if the accuracy isn’t perfect.
It’s tricky to gauge search demand at this stage, but you can start making assumptions about what AI is pulling in for different queries. And like I said, reverse-engineering that process can be really useful. If your whole team starts experimenting with AI in this way, you'll begin spotting opportunities—especially when thinking about client challenges. You can ask, At what stage of a search journey would AI be helpful? And from there, you can strategically think about how to position your clients to be surfaced more consistently in these results.
Heather Physioc: Yeah, I’m thinking about it.
I completely agree with everything Kevin just said. But I’m also looking at it from a slightly different angle—specifically, how we encourage our clients to integrate this into their conversations about search. As for how we do it, I’m fully aligned with Kevin.
Right now, we’re experimenting—showing clients what’s possible, learning from each other, and refining our understanding of use cases. The goal is to get better at applying these insights.
To keep it simple for clients, I’ve been framing it in terms of the role different searchable platforms play. I actually created a tool that breaks down the common types of search engines and how people use them. Interestingly, many of these platforms aren’t traditional search engines; they’re just platforms with heavily used search functions that provide valuable customer insights.
For example, you have traditional search engines—Google, Bing, Yahoo, Baidu, Yandex, DuckDuckGo. These are the "everything engines," the starting point for broad online searches, giving access to exhaustive information across the internet.
Then there are social and entertainment searchable platforms—YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest, LinkedIn. Here, people expect to find content, entertainment, inspiration, trends, and connections in a more social, communal setting.
Now, we’re entering the world of conversational AI search experiences. Instead of searching, gathering information, backing out, searching again, and trying to piece everything together manually, AI-driven search lets users interact with information in a fluid, synthesized way. Customers expect a back-and-forth dialogue—where AI answers their questions, synthesizes insights, and accelerates tasks in real time.
By explaining the distinctions between traditional search, social search, retail search, mobile search, vertical search, voice search, and AI search, we help clients see the bigger picture. Connecting these dots makes it clear why they need to integrate AI into their strategy—because AI-powered search is becoming the norm across all these spaces.
The Future of Search: Personalization, Branding, and the Next Big Shift
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah. In fact, I think the real revolution hasn’t arrived yet. We’ve had glimpses of it—for instance, in complexity, with multimodal searches and responses. But I believe the real game-changer is still ahead, and our good friend Google has a strong hand to play.
Personally, I’m still waiting for Google to deliver on what it announced over a year ago—MUM. More than a year has passed, and we still haven’t seen a true integration of MUM into search. I’m talking about a seamless blend of conversational search, visual search, and classic text-based search across all devices. Technically, Google already allows you to continue a search across different devices, but the real transformation hasn’t happened yet.
Imagine this: You're watching a YouTube video on your TV. You see something interesting in the background, and with a simple voice command, you ask Google to search for that object. The search starts visually, then seamlessly transitions to your phone, where you can continue exploring. That kind of fluid, intuitive search experience—that’s what I consider a real revolution.
Right now, it feels like Google is just dangling the carrot in front of us.
Heather Physioc: Think about all the different platforms and devices people use to search. It reminds me of when we were obsessed with mobile devices, and then later, the Internet of Things. We need to understand every platform people search on. That’s the goal.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Because search is liquid also in this sense. It started from a video or YouTube. YouTube now has more views on television, TV set, than on a desktop or a computer.
Kevin Gibbons: I saw a fantastic talk at Turin Fest last year by Tom Anthony from SearchPilot. He discussed how the next big shift in search will likely be personalization. Once search engines integrate more deeply with your data—like your mobile apps—queries will become much more tailored. For example, if you ask, 'Where should I go on holiday?' and the system knows your past travel preferences, it can provide recommendations that are highly personalized rather than just generic suggestions for everyone.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, totally. But this also makes me think of two questions. One is more of a consideration, more of an observation. There’s this really strong relationship—one that has always existed but is now even more pronounced—between what we generally call branding and SEO.
The other question is about hyper-personalization. How effective is it really? Because while hyper-personalization can be great, it also has its limitations. It can end up limiting discovery instead of broadening it. Take Netflix, for example—I get bored seeing the same types of recommendations over and over just because the algorithm knows I love sci-fi. Instead, I’d rather have it suggest something new, something with, say, at least an 8.0 rating on IMDb or Rotten Tomatoes, rather than another mediocre sci-fi film with a 3.0 rating. There needs to be a good balance—personalization, yes, but without trapping users in a narrow bubble of content.
So, how do you see this balance playing out when it comes to SEO and branding? How can we use classic SEO tools—good content, quality content, well-planned campaigns—not just to rank, but to actually push branding? Specifically, how do we ensure that people search for a brand alongside relevant queries, so that the brand gets embedded in search history? That way, it has a better chance of being surfaced again in future searches or even in AI-generated responses.
Are you actively working on this side of marketing?
Kevin Gibbons: I think this is a natural extension of what we’ve been doing for a while. For a long time now, the focus has been on topics rather than just keywords. If you go back far enough, there was a time when SEO strategies revolved around landing pages targeting individual keywords. But that approach has been outdated for at least a decade.
Now, it’s much more about topics—about creating the best possible content around a given subject. A strong piece of content can rank for multiple keyword variations, which ties into the broader goal of becoming an authority in your space. The question now is: how do you create content that truly deserves to rank?
That’s where digital PR comes in. Building awareness on external publishers across different topics is not only beneficial for SEO but also likely valuable from an LLM (Large Language Model) perspective. The more your brand is referenced in credible sources, the more likely it is to be recognized and surfaced in AI-driven results.
At a more tactical level, it’s worth understanding which sources LLMs frequently reference. This varies by platform, depending on how they curate and compile information. The more insight you have into these sources, the better your chances of being included—especially if there are gaps in the content universe they pull from.
To me, that’s the biggest shift. But beyond that, most of what you should be doing for SEO still applies: building a strong, reputable brand that naturally gets picked up in these areas. The key difference now is understanding how LLMs prioritize content. If you can identify high-value areas in their criteria, you can align with them—not to game the system, but to work within it effectively.
Heather Physioc: I’ve always believed it’s important to think beyond just a website or Google, but now more than ever, it's crucial to consider the optimization of your entire digital portfolio—your owned, earned, and influenced digital assets.
You mentioned digital PR. While you may not have full control over everything that happens there, you can absolutely influence it. And with AI-driven search now scraping and synthesizing information from multiple sources rather than pulling from just one at a time, that information could come from anywhere.
That’s why we’re having deeper conversations with brands about what their digital brand experience really means. We encourage them to take a more holistic approach—not just in optimizing their digital presence but also in refining their media campaigns and brand experiences. The goal is to ensure that when people encounter the brand in search results, including AI-generated ones, it aligns with the promises made in branding campaigns.
We’re also closely examining how search behaviors are evolving—how people look up industries, brands, competitors, topics, entertainment, information, transactions, and more across different searchable platforms.
Interestingly, this pairs beautifully with social listening and strategy. By identifying shifts in search behavior, we can fuel more real-time insights, campaigns, and content, making brands more responsive to market trends and the triggers that drive people to search in the first place.
COVID’s Impact on Digital Agencies
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, it's an interesting topic—really fascinating, actually. I think we're going to see a lot of creativity in this space.
What I was saying about the human touch in AI—we’ve always been supportive of AI, but let’s take a step back in time. Around five years ago, the conversation was completely different. We were all focused on something else: COVID-19.
I remember how massive its impact was—it affected everyone’s life in some way. But I’m curious, what did it mean for you? Specifically, how did it impact the life of your agency? You were already working at that time, Kevin. You were with Signal, and now you have your own agency. So what did that period represent for you?
What, if anything, would you change about how things unfolded? And what lessons or changes from that time have you carried forward? For example, Kevin, the fact that your agency is fully remote now—would you say that’s a direct result of that shift?
Kevin Gibbons: Yeah, I think that’s definitely been the biggest impact for us. We had an office in London for about eight years, but we had already transitioned from a four-day workweek to three days in the office, with the rest remote. That setup put us in a good position for COVID—everything was cloud-based, and we were already comfortable working from home.
One major shift was how it changed our hiring approach. We no longer needed to recruit within a certain radius, which broadened our talent pool. Now, our entire team is UK-based, but there’s no single office location that would be commutable for everyone. That’s shaped our culture—we look for people who are self-motivated and can work effectively in a remote environment.
That said, this isn’t lockdown-era remote work. We still meet in person for client meetings, QBRs, leadership sessions, workshops, and team get-togethers. There’s still value in face-to-face collaboration, even in a remote-first model.
Another big shift has been our focus on e-commerce. Pre-COVID, we worked across B2C industries like travel, retail, and finance, but the pandemic accelerated e-commerce growth. While that boom has slowed in the last couple of years, e-commerce remains our strongest sector, and we’ve doubled down on it. From an agency perspective, it simplifies things—we work with clients facing similar challenges, which streamlines our processes and makes our sales and marketing efforts more focused.
So while COVID wasn’t necessarily the direct driver of all these changes, it sped up the evolution of trends that were already underway.
Gianluca Fiorelli: And what did that mean for such a large global agency, where coordinating across all the headquarters worldwide is usually a key task? What changes did it bring, and maybe even accelerate?
Heather Physioc: Being a global agency with an established network around the world gave us some advantages. But the pandemic really pushed us to pick up the pace—and honestly, it opened up a lot of new connections. Before COVID, we probably interacted more in person, focusing on the people immediately around us. But the pandemic broadened our reach, connecting us with professionals across the globe who we might not have worked with otherwise.
Now, the challenge is finding the right balance. We're definitely moving back toward our offices worldwide, but we’ve embraced a hybrid model—some in-office work, some remote. We believe our agency isn’t just about delivering work; it’s a relationship-driven business. Serving clients goes beyond search alone. To grow, we need to cross paths with different disciplines, collaborate organically, and uncover new opportunities.
That’s why having a globally connected team, centralized sources of truth, and a strong infrastructure for sharing and exporting successful strategies was invaluable during the pandemic.
Looking ahead, aside from returning to in-person collaboration—which is great—the bigger challenge is navigating the shifting economic landscape. As Kevin mentioned, the brands we work with span different industries, each experiencing unique challenges. The pandemic brought a boom for e-commerce as spending shifted online, but now, marketers are facing a different challenge: explaining to clients why that surge didn’t continue indefinitely. What looks like a decline is often just a return to normal—not every year can be a record-breaking pandemic year.
That shift creates complexity. Our job is to help clients understand what "real" looks like in today’s market. And on top of that, AI is changing everything, making it even harder to define what’s real.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah.
Kevin Gibbons: I totally agree. During COVID, I spoke with the head of retail at KPMG, and they were predicting that the pandemic would accelerate digital transformation by seven to eight years. But like you said, that wasn’t entirely real. It wasn’t a natural shift—it was more of a "we have to do this now" situation.
Everything was fast-tracked because it was mission-critical. And now, we're seeing a reset of the baseline. I think you're right—everyone is just looking at the last 12 months and asking, "How do we add a few extra percentage points on top of that?" without acknowledging that the massive spike we saw during COVID wasn’t sustainable or something we can rely on moving forward.
Heather Physioc: COVID was the most searched topic ever. At first, it completely overshadowed everything that wasn’t COVID—which was pretty interesting. But then, yeah, the big e-commerce boom happened, and you have to connect the dots between those two.
Kevin Gibbons: Yeah. Toilet roll sales have probably gone down.
Heather Physioc: I don’t need to buy more exercise equipment.
Kevin Gibbons: Exactly.
Retaining Excellence in Agencies
Gianluca Fiorelli: Alright, let me throw in one last serious question. This one’s a quick one—more of a classic, well-tested question.
The challenge I’ve seen, both from a distance and through friends in agencies like yours, is maintaining excellence in an agency setting. I feel like there are very few industries, like search or digital marketing, where people move so fast in their careers.
So, how do agencies—especially yours—retain that excellence, the very thing that defines their success? Is it more about offering great benefits, or is it really about aligning the agency’s vision with that of the individual? In other words, creating an environment where someone thinks, I don’t want to leave because I do great work here, even if another agency offers a slightly bigger paycheck.
How do you approach that?
Heather Physioc: Yeah, there’s a lot of opportunity for search professionals out there, but the job market is definitely getting tougher. So why would a search practitioner choose a big, creative, multidisciplinary agency like ours?
Humbly speaking, search isn’t the center of the universe here. We’re not the star player—we’re just about 1% of what the entire agency does. And that’s humbling. It’s a reminder that we’re part of a much bigger, interconnected network.
But if you love collaborating across disciplines, tackling problems that don’t have obvious solutions, and working at the intersection of different fields, this is an incredibly exciting place to be. Every day brings new, complex challenges that go beyond traditional SEO—we solve unique discoverability problems. If that excites you, and you thrive on creative problem-solving, I think we can offer meaningful, inspiring, and challenging work.
Beyond that, as a global agency with strong leadership, we offer great benefits, professional development opportunities, and the chance to work alongside some of the smartest people I’ve ever met. Truly. I’m not exaggerating. Across all areas of expertise, I’ve been here for almost 11 years, and I can honestly say I’ve learned something new every single day.
This is the perfect environment for people who crave learning, creativity, and dynamic problem-solving. But if you prefer a steady, predictable job where every day looks the same… well, we might be a little too creatively chaotic for that.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Thatt's cool.
Kevin Gibbons: Whatever the cost—maybe an extra $10,000—it’s really about understanding where people will thrive and enjoy spending their time. When you mentioned this, I jotted down a list of key points, but I think it all starts with a clear vision and aligned values.
Where are you going? What type of company are you? Your values define your way of working—not in a "good or bad" sense, but in terms of fit. When your values are clear, you can make stronger hiring decisions with greater confidence that someone will succeed in your organization. Being selective is crucial, both when recruiting and when choosing clients.
It’s easy to fall into a downward spiral: you need to win a client, so you take on the wrong one. Because of that, you hire the wrong person. And that rarely ends well. More often than not, you end up having to untangle the mess later. Instead, having a clear direction and the patience to stick to it—no matter how long it takes—is what keeps you on the right path.
People also need to be rewarded. There’s a quote I like: "Everything is about money, but salary isn’t the only currency." Yes, compensation matters, but there are many other factors at play. Flexibility, for example, is a major one.
Treat people like adults—it sounds obvious, but it’s crucial. Dan Pink talks about this in his book, emphasizing Autonomy, Mastery, and Purpose. People do their best work when they feel trusted and empowered. And give them great clients. The best people want to work on the best accounts. If they’re solving complex, meaningful problems—sometimes challenging ones—that’s where they thrive.
Being selective works both ways. If your organization has high standards, it naturally attracts the right people while filtering out those who might not be the best fit. You don’t want to settle for mediocrity. You want the best clients, the best people, and a culture of excellence running through the company.
And lastly—always keep learning. If every year feels like Groundhog Day, that’s a problem. You should be evolving, taking on new clients, and keeping things fresh and exciting.
One more thing: a friend who runs a recruitment agency once told me that if someone has three or more close friends within an organization, they’re far more likely to stay. People want to work with people they like. Building a strong, connected culture isn’t just a nice-to-have—it’s a key factor in retaining top talent.
The Proust Questionnaire
Gianluca Fiorelli: Great. That was a great answer—really insightful for me. I come at this from the opposite side, working as a consultant. Even though I collaborate a lot with various agencies, I usually approach these things from our perspective.
Let’s wrap up this amazing conversation—I’ve really enjoyed it!
Now, a quick question. I’d love for you to answer it instantly, without overthinking—just go with what comes from the heart rather than the brain. That way, it’ll give both you and the people watching or listening a more genuine glimpse of who you are.
So, let’s switch gears. First question: Before Heather, then Kevin—what’s your favorite word?
Heather Physioc: My favorite word?
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes.
Heather Physioc: Oh gosh, no pressure: onomatopoeia. That was the first one that came to mind, because I can spell it without looking at it.
Gianluca Fiorelli: And you Kevin, what is your favorite word?
Kevin Gibbons: Yeah, this feels like the hardest question you've asked. But I just looked down at my notes and saw the word learning, so that just stood out to me as it's a good thing to focus on.
Heather Physioc: That's funny.
Gianluca Fiorelli: What throws you off?
Heather Physioc: People who are not solution focused, who just want to wallow instead of solving problems. That throws me off.
Kevin Gibbons:It's funny you said, I laugh because mine's pretty much the same, which is just over complicating stuff. It doesn't need to be over complicated.
Heather Physioc: That's a good one.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Let's go sensorial. What is the sound you like the most?
Heather Physioc: Wrestling leaves with birds. Birds in the background any day of the week.
Kevin Gibbons: I've been playing a lot of tennis recently, so hitting a winner, hitting a smash, something like that always sounds quite satisfying.
Gianluca Fiorelli: And if you weren't doing what you are doing, maybe this is easier for you Heather, what kind of profession would you love to have?
Heather Physioc: That one is easy for me. I went to school to be a journalist. I started my career as a journalist. In another life, I would be an investigative conservation photo journalist focused on wildlife.
Gianluca Fiorelli: See you next on National Geographic!
Heather Physioc: Yes, exactly. Call me Nat Geo, call me!
Kevin Gibbons: I feel like I've been on a bit of a marketing path for a while, but weirdly at school I wanted to be a sports journalist. I'm just like sports mad. So yeah, I feel like I've copied your answers a couple of times, but if I think back before marketing, it would certainly be down that sort of path.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Cool. And let's end with a laugh. Heather, what is your favorite curse word?
Heather Physioc: Favorite curse word? I'm a lover of the F word. It just, am I allowed to say it on this? It just has such a hard F and a hard K and it's just emphatic and confident. It's my favorite curse word.
Gianluca Fiorelli: And you, Kevin?
Kevin Gibbons: I'm British, so I don't swear, obviously, but sticking to the sports theme, my favourite curse word is probably Manchester United, so as a big Liverpool fan.
Heather Physioc: Learn, Kevin.
Gianluca Fiorelli: That's fine. That's fine. Okay. So thank you again. It was a really great conversation. I really loved it. And maybe in the future we’ll have a second one.
Heather Physioc: Would love that. What a great dialogue. Thank you so much for hosting us, Gianluca. I can't wait to see it live.
Podcast Host
Gianluca Fiorelli
With almost 20 years of experience in web marketing, Gianluca Fiorelli is a Strategic and International SEO Consultant who helps businesses improve their visibility and performance on organic search. Gianluca collaborated with clients from various industries and regions, such as Glassdoor, Idealista, Rastreator.com, Outsystems, Chess.com, SIXT Ride, Vegetables by Bayer, Visit California, Gamepix, James Edition and many others.
A very active member of the SEO community, Gianluca daily shares his insights and best practices on SEO, content, Search marketing strategy and the evolution of Search on social media channels such as X, Bluesky and LinkedIn and through the blog on his website: IloveSEO.net.
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